The other day, I was driving past Tall Oaks Village Center. Seeing its forlorn condition, with so many vacancies, brought me down. But rather than just letting it depress me, I turned my mind toward ideas to revitalize the forgotten village center.
Suggesting tenants to fill the storefronts at Tall Oaks, or dreaming up ideas for revamping it, is one of Reston’s most popular pastimes. It’s been done several times here on Patch. (I’ve often thought that if every Restonian who’s come up with an idea for improving Tall Oaks actually shopped or dined there once in a while, the center would be thriving.)
But imagining a new future for Tall Oaks is more than an idle pastime for me. It’s personal. Because Tall Oaks was my childhood village center.
It may be hard to imagine for some of you newer Restonians, but Tall Oaks once thrived. It was within perfect walking distance for us, and my family stopped there often. We did our grocery shopping at the Giant Food. I always tried to cadge a couple quarters so I could get a pack of baseball cards out of the vending machine. I remember buying birthday cards at the Hallmark that was next to the Giant, and renting videos from Erol’s on the other side of the grocery store.
There was a great Italian restaurant at Tall Oaks, Da Siano, that my family loved. It was run by a local family; one of the sons was my classmate. Di Siano’s daily specials introduced me to a variety of exotic and delightful dishes, from osso bucco to linguine with baby octopus.
Tall Oaks was also a popular destination when my buddies and I roamed around the neighborhood. I had many a Slurpee at the 7-11 in the summertime. When we’d emerge from the Wiehle Avenue underpass and race up the stairs, as long as I had a couple bucks in my pocket, I was ready for fun.
Sadly, time marched on and Tall Oaks began to fade. First the Town Center, then the Spectrum, then Plaza America drew away the neighborhood traffic that used to frequent Tall Oaks. Even during my childhood, there were spots at Tall Oaks that were a tough draw. Di Siano had been preceded by several restaurants that failed, in no small part because the space was so well-hidden. But newer, easier-to-find competition made times tough for the entire center.
The property owners tried what they could. Originally, Tall Oaks was a two-level center; there was a nice little pedestrian plaza on the lower level. The owners demolished that plaza (along with the strip of buildings where Hallmark used to be) and expanded the parking lot. Like Hunters Woods, Tall Oaks was transformed from a true village center into more of a strip mall. It didn’t help much; the new layout eliminated the problem of hidden shops like Di Siano, but the whole center was still practically invisible from the road.
The old shops last out to newer and more visible competitors elsewhere in Reston. Di Siano’s owners moved their restaurant (to Great Falls, if I remember rightly). Erol’s was bought by another video store, which was eclipsed by Blockbuster and Hollywood Video (which were in turn eclipsed by Netflix). The 7-11 withered away for lack of traffic, and eventually gave way to Curves gym (which itself has vanished). Many of Giant’s former customers (like my parents) began shopping at Harris Teeter instead, and after lingering for years, Giant gave up the ghost in 2007. A couple international supermarkets tried the space, but both failed within 2 years. The renovation of the center brought in a Burger King, but even that failed. When you can’t make a Burger King work, you’ve got problems.
Today, there are a few popular restaurants at Tall Oaks, including El Manantial (my parents’ favorite), Mama Wok, and Pho Reston 75. But the village center as a whole is still ailing. Some say the Silver Line may be the shot in the arm that Tall Oaks needs, but the station isn’t really close enough to be walkable, and the center is likely to be on the periphery of any new Metro-related development.
So what is the answer? Some think that luring the right anchor tenant to the old Giant space is the key. Maybe a Trader Joe’s or another anchor would be the draw that gets people into the center. Others have suggested a larger redesign of the center, one that would open it up and making it visible from Wiehle Avenue. If people could see from their cars what Tall Oaks had to offer, they might stop in.
If these solutions would allow the vibrant Tall Oaks of my youth to return, I would be happy for that. But between the awkward location and the other newer shopping options nearby, I’m not sure it can happen. That’s why I think it might be time to turn Tall Oaks into something other than a shopping center.
There’s a reason that Bob Simon called them “village centers” rather than shopping centers. He envisioned Tall Oaks and its ilk as being more than just a place to shop; he saw them as community gathering spaces, where you might stop to talk to your neighbors, or relax for an afternoon, or attend an event. Unfortunately, with the exception of Lake Anne, Reston’s village centers have morphed into strip malls, useful for little more than taking care of your retail business.
Reston has no shortage of shopping options nowadays. What we lack is true community gathering space. What if, for instance, RA or the County purchased Tall Oaks and turned it into a true village center? We could honor Bob’s original vision by making Tall Oaks into a place where the community could gather. We could use the space for an amphitheater, or a recreation center, or a public park. There are plenty of paths leading to Tall Oaks; if there were a community amenity in the space, we might give residents in surrounding neighborhoods a reason to walk there again.
I realize that a vision on this scale is far easier said than done. But given the state of things at Tall Oaks, and with Metro-related development and redevelopment poised to reshape Reston, it’s time for big ideas and big visions. A repurposing like this might just be what Tall Oaks needs. And a true community gathering place – a real village center – might just be what Reston needs.
I’d like to hear from you about your ideas for Tall Oaks. Do you think a wholesale repurposing is the ticket? If so, what would you like to see in that area? If not, what do you think would help bring Tall Oaks back?
DGeorge
2:21 pm on Wednesday, January 16, 2013
I don't believe Tall Oaks is coming back. I would appear the owners are looking for some sort of windfall with the Silver line completion. I was told they refused to renew curves lease even though curves wanted to renew. What does that tell you? What Tall Oaks needs is unique shopping such as Trader Joes or a Gourmet food store that people seek out. Not a shop that relies on traffic. Alas, the owners of Tall Oaks seem to be content to let it deteriorate. What Tall Oaks really needs is new owners with vision.
Colin Mills
7:33 pm on Wednesday, January 16, 2013
Thanks for the comment, DGeorge. I agree that Tall Oaks needs something that people are willing to seek out; that's the best way to get people to an out-of-the-way location. (A smaller-scale example of this occured at the old Hunters Woods McDonald's space; it was filled by Ariake, which is good enough to encourage people to seek it out.) And I definitely agree that Tall Oaks needs new vision.
DGeorge
10:43 am on Thursday, January 17, 2013
Colin, I recall at Hunters woods, before the destruction, that back in the corner, out of sight was Fritzbies. A restaurant that was popular and busy. There was also a very good German restaurant whose name I have forgotten that was also popular. Tall Oaks, as you say, also had an excellent Italian restaurant. We used to eat there often. El Manatial is also an excellent restaurant that is holding its own. My point being is that people will seek out excellence and they will shun mediocrity. Burger King didn't make it because those kinds of places rely on traffic.
My wife and I have lived in Reston for over 30 years. We have witnessed the decline.
Colin Mills
10:59 am on Thursday, January 17, 2013
Ah, Fritzbies! I remember that place too; it was a good neighborhood restaurant. And I don't remember the German place, but I definitely miss that; it's hard to find good German food in the area!
You've made a very astute point: people will put in the effort to seek out quality, even in inconvenient locations. If Tall Oaks worked on luring quality shops and restaurants (like El Manantial), people would come.
Michael
3:07 pm on Wednesday, January 16, 2013
I think it's a bit unfair to say that Hunters Woods is just a strip mall - doesn't the community center there draw quite a lot of traffic, in "village center" mode? Granted, the entire plaza is hideous, but there is something there beyond in-and-out shopping.
Colin Mills
7:39 pm on Wednesday, January 16, 2013
Good point, Michael; I was unfair to leave RCC out when discussing Hunters Woods. I was thinking of the main portion of the center, which is very bland and strip mall-like (especially compared to what was there originally) I wish that RCC was better integrated into the rest of the plaza.
Michael Hans
12:21 pm on Friday, January 18, 2013
I owned the german restaurant from 93 to 96, we all know what happened to Hunters Woods owned by the Lerner's at that time. No reinvestment into the center for well over 15 years, let to the demise and eventual closures and remake of the center.
Now, we have a center with mediocre restaurants and retail which is truggling, Safeway has the worst reputation, changes in progress are terrible at Hunters Woods with the new color scheme etc. It really has no class at all.
Colin Mills
6:45 pm on Friday, January 18, 2013
Thanks, Michael, for providing a shopowner's perspective on the changes at Hunters Woods. And if you ever wanted to open another German restaurant in Reston, I'd be the first one in line!
DGeorge
3:32 pm on Wednesday, January 16, 2013
Yes, it is hideous. It wasn't always though. I remember a very pleasant Hunters woods with good restaurants and interesting shops and events. It didn't please the soul less developers, the little serious men in grey suits, however. They wanted bigger, more concrete, more fast food and they got it. Just as they will " Develop" town center. Hmmmm what could be another word for "Develop"?
Orlina Tucker
3:43 pm on Wednesday, January 16, 2013
What happens to Tall Oaks is also personal for my household. We've lived in Bentana West for the past 15 years, and we’ve no plans to move anytime soon. My sincere hope is that we’ve seen the last of grocery and convenience stores. Our neighborhood is a much safer and more pleasant place to live without them.
Before they closed, the path section that runs from Tall Oaks to Cedar Ridge apartments and what use to be Carter Lake apartments was unusable. Unbelievable amounts of trash; groups of men hanging out, smoking and drinking heavily at all hours (this was particularly bad during the summer); grocery store shopping carts discarded along the path or dumped in the creek. It was horrible.
We had people trying to break into our houses from our walk out basements; gang tagging was ever-present on retaining walls and the bridge. The Fairfax County Police helicopter and patrol cars were such frequent visitors; it was an event when there wasn’t a noticeable police presence in the cluster. This was our neighborhood when food, alcohol and hidden hang out spots were within walking distance of these complexes.
I happily frequent several businesses in Tall Oaks. I have opinions about what could work there, and I’ve participated in several Patch discussions about what to do with our poor, dead village center. I’m certainly not a fan of having a mostly-empty shopping center at the top of my street, but better that than another grocery store or 7-11.
Colin Mills
7:47 pm on Wednesday, January 16, 2013
Thanks for the comment, Orlina. You raise an interesting point; there's a downside to having a grocery/convenience store nearby. I certainly think that we can do better than the current state of affairs, and hopefully without creating too many negative repercussions for the surrounding neighborhoods.
Skip Endale
4:56 pm on Wednesday, January 16, 2013
Businesses need to think about which community they cater to. I would say there are at least 200 senior citizens nearby and an over the thumb calculation tells me they each would spend $5 daily to get out of the house and have some fun. On a recent trip to the Plateau neighborhood in Montreal I realized this type of venue can entertain both young and old alike, all it takes is a little bit of creativity and entrepreneurial spirit. The venue I am talking about is a loosely knit chess club with options to also play scrabble, bridge and card games, has a Wifi, and some art hanging on the wall. Students go there to study late into the night over a cup of coffee and some home made snacks, reasonably priced, are also available. There is no annoying music and you can see people from the neighborhood just pop in and out too. I understand its not a quickly-get-rich scheme but just like the Reston Used Bookstore it would be a nice addition to the community. Maybe we can call it Cafe PII.
Colin Mills
7:55 pm on Wednesday, January 16, 2013
Great idea, Skip! I love that concept, and I agree that it's something we could use here in Reston. Providing a destination for the folks at the senior-living facility would be a great idea, too. I'd love to see this happen!
IndependentThinker
6:52 pm on Wednesday, January 16, 2013
It needs a bowling alley!
Colin Mills
7:56 pm on Wednesday, January 16, 2013
Ooh, that's another fun idea! I love a good bowling alley.
Melinda Bashen
6:57 pm on Wednesday, January 16, 2013
Why not add Barnes & Noble Bookstore over there??
Colin Mills
8:04 pm on Wednesday, January 16, 2013
I like this thought, Melinda! There's a need for a bookstore in Reston, and we've got a space available. And people would definitely be willing to seek out Barnes & Noble. I hope it works!
Tom Day
7:23 pm on Wednesday, January 16, 2013
We live about a mile and a half north of Tall Oaks and would absolutely love it if it were revitalized. It would be great to be able to stop there on the way home from DC, or walk there on a weekend instead of North Point or RTC. And I agree that a true village center would be much better than a strip mall. My fear is that, in moving here in 2000, we missed the quaintness of Reston by 10-20 years, and if there was anything I could do to bring that back I would.
Colin Mills
8:11 pm on Wednesday, January 16, 2013
Thanks for writing, Tom! And I'm glad you like my concept. Reston's definitely a different place than it was when I was growing up in the '80s, for better and for worse.
Gary Maybarduk
8:14 pm on Wednesday, January 16, 2013
There are lots of possible uses, but a shopping center would add little to our community. Reston needs to protect areas for public space. A bowling alley is a good idea if commercially viable.. Reston very much needs another indoor pool. I think a skating ring would be a big hit. A "Writers Room" such has just been opened in Chevy Chase might pay for itself. A small and quiet reading library might find use from both students and the elderly. Add a coffee shop, a few public chess/checkers tables and you could have the makings of a successful community area.
The space might not be large enough for a new school, but a new middle school has been desperately needed for years. Langston Hughes is just too big to address the needs of young teens.
Lots of possibilities.
Colin Mills
8:41 pm on Wednesday, January 16, 2013
Great ideas, Gary! Any of those would be a valuable asset in our community. And RCA's Education Committee was just talking last week about where we might find land for new school buildings.
Thanks for your suggestions! Say hi to Peter for me.
M.D.
8:43 pm on Wednesday, January 16, 2013
I feel the same way about Lake Anne. That's where I grew up in the 70s and 80s, so I have fond memories of Lake Anne as you do Tall Oaks. The Sweet Tooth and the Calvert Gourmet were my favorite places. The Pharmacy (Larry!) and tiny eat-in are still there. And of course there's the used book store. I used to work at Fresh Value. Lake Anne has also suffered over the years from a lack of visitors and there are a lot of vacant spots, but not nearly as much as Tall Oaks, which stands virtually empty. I also hung out at Tall Oaks a lot as a kid, it was just a further walk than Lake Anne. Maybe the difference is there are also residences above the shops at Lake Anne. I don't think Tall Oaks had that. Demo the whole thing and rebuild with shops on the ground level and a nice residential section on top. Clear out a specific area of trees so travelers on Wiehle Ave can see there's life there.
Colin Mills
11:18 pm on Wednesday, January 16, 2013
Hey, a fellow native! Thanks for the memories. I lived a little closer to Tall Oaks, but I spent plenty of time in both places. I used to love getting Chuckles from the Pharmacy, and I still miss the Sweet Tooth. Residential over retail at Tall Oaks is an intriguing idea!
Victoria
8:44 pm on Wednesday, January 16, 2013
We need an indoor play space for children. Parks are great during good weather, but kids still need to get out and play when its too hot/too cold to be outside at a park. We have been using the B&N kids area for this purpose. There's a kids play area/coffee shop in Fairfax called PB&Jack. I would love to have something like that in Reston.
Colin Mills
11:22 pm on Wednesday, January 16, 2013
Good thought! I certainly would have loved to have an indoor play space to take my daughter when she was younger; could have staved off some of those cabin-fever weekends. Now that the At Play Cafe is gone, we could use a successor.
The Convict
8:52 pm on Wednesday, January 16, 2013
Strip joint. Reston in general and Tall Oaks in particular definitely needs a good, classy strip joint.
Either that or we should put a gun shop and firing range there.
Java Master
10:12 pm on Wednesday, January 16, 2013
Reconfigure the whole site, provide ingress and egress to the rear of the site directly from Wiehle Avenue, remove some of the extraneous trees so that the site is visible from Wiehle. Demolish the existing shopping center, rebuild with apartments and townhomes plus suitable amenities for the new residents. Voila! A new residential neighborhood.
Colin Mills
11:30 pm on Wednesday, January 16, 2013
Thanks, Java Master! I think this site would be a great location for residential. Either straight residential or residential-over-retail, as M.D. suggested, would be welcome.
Dave
10:26 pm on Wednesday, January 16, 2013
Sorry if this is a repost, I had to create an account and I'm not sure if it posted after creating the account... Anyways, I think something like the oxbow public market that they have in napa, ca would be awesome in the old giant space. It's like an indoor permanent farmers market/arts and crafts/gourmet food court that has little open shops selling everything from wine to different olive oils, jewelry, crafts, fresh pastries and breads, cheeses, produce, meats, fresh ground gourmet coffees, and farm-to-market oriented "fast foods (e.g. Pizza, fresh sandwiches etc.) all in an open airy setting. See: http://www.oxbowpublicmarket.com/ for a better idea. Almost like a whole foods meets the reston farmers market but indoors...
Colin Mills
11:28 pm on Wednesday, January 16, 2013
That looks fascinating! I'm not sure that the Gaint space would be big enough for the Oxbow, but maybe it could work on a smaller scale. I'd be a regular visitor, for certain!
Jenn G
11:40 am on Thursday, January 17, 2013
I personally would spend LOTS of money at a place like that!!
Karen Goff
10:39 pm on Wednesday, January 16, 2013
That is pretty much what I would like to see at Lake Anne.
Laura Calacci
8:38 am on Thursday, January 17, 2013
Sorry, but I don't think any of these ideas are feasible. One person commented on the gang activity and groups of men drinking on the path leading to the center. Lake Anne has a true loitering problem. What business, in one of the wealthiest counties in the country, wants to invest in a location surrounded by low income housing? Yet, on Patch, all you hear about is the evil developers. In the plans for redeveloping Fairway Apts. & Cameron Crescent Apts. all anyone seems to care about is low income housing. I think Reston has more than its fair share of that. I live off Fairway Dr. and recently my car was broken into. The police officer said, "well, you live near the low income housing". Of course, I know all the bleeding hearts will think I am terrible and I know I am not politically correct. Nor do I want to be. If you replace Fairway and Cameron Crescent & all that other housing near Forest Edge school with half a million+ dollar condos/townhouses, crime will be reduced, and the retail developers will fight for the space. In the meantime, maybe a gun store? Oh wait, Reston's libs probably don't want that either. Wake up and smell the coffee being sold over at RTC, People do not want to go to a shopping center where there is loitering (prob by illegal immigrants..also not PC, i know). I know, you all think its the developers who are awful. REDEVELOP low income housiing into market rate housing & problem will be solved.
Colin Mills
10:43 am on Thursday, January 17, 2013
Thanks for the comment, Laura. I definitely agree with you that developers are not evil, and indeed, I've never said that. Developers are and should be part of the conversation and part of the solution when we consider planning issues.
That said, I can't agree with some of your other comments. There are issues associated with subsidized and affordable housing, but removing all of that from Reston is not the answer. One of the key pieces of Bob Simon's vision for Reston was to provide housing opportunities for all income levels. If we start hanging out a "Not Welcome Here" sign to anyone who doesn't have a six-figure household income, we'd be creating a very different sort of community. And definitely not one I'd want to live in.
The Convict
10:56 am on Thursday, January 17, 2013
Ah, yes. Whenever the truth concerning Reston is uncomfortable, well, let's just invoke Bob Simon's vision.
Face it, crime and poverty go mano-a-mano. Wherever there are substantial poor populations, there's going to be a crime problem unless there are substantial law enforcement assets dedicated to that area.
So, the question is, why should Reston have an outsized share of poor in its communities? Or, put another way, why don't places like Vienna, Great Falls and Clifton also rate substantial low income neighborhoods? And if they don't rate such neighborhoods, how are they different from Reston?
And, btw, Laura, I really do think that Tall Oaks would benefit from a gun shop with a firing range.
Colin Mills
1:29 pm on Thursday, January 17, 2013
How is Reston different than those other communities, Convict? To me, the answer is this: Reston is the only one of those communities that was founded with a specific commitment to provide housing for a variety of income levels. That includes those with lower incomes. I look at those developments and, while I acknowledge associated issues such as crime, I'm proud that Reston is maintaining its commitment to a community that's diverse and open to everyone. You seem to focus solely on the downsides. That's your right, but we will have to agree to disagree.
I do have a sincere question for you and Laura: you both seem to be very unhappy with the amount of low-income housing in Reston. But this isn't new; the housing has been here for decades. And as you point out, Convict, there are other nearby communities that have less of it. And yet, you choose to live in Reston. Why did you choose Reston, and why do you stay? No snark, I'm sincerely curious.
Michael
8:38 am on Thursday, January 17, 2013
That would be a great thing to have around - but Napa's Oxbow market is in downtown of a major tourist destination, and supported by all the gourmands who go to that area for food and wine tours, not just by residents. I doubt Reston could sustain such a thing on its own :(
Dave
11:07 pm on Thursday, January 17, 2013
Michael, you are probably right, just thought I'd throw the thought out there. The advantage that the napa/Sonoma area has is the almost year round rich agricultural surroundings that support the market along with the tourist draw of the area. Reston does seem to have some of the same types of people that would be drawn to something of its nature though; just observe the popularities of the farmers markets in the area. Was just a thought :). I can picture people eating slice of fresh real pizza with a glass of Virginia wine or local brew either inside, or in a pavilion type area outside. (Although I'm sure VA abc would beg to differ)
Kathy
9:12 am on Thursday, January 17, 2013
Colin, I have suggested it before--a cooperative grocery store like the one in Davis, California would benefit Reston. It would bring people in from surrounding areas to shop here.
And Laura Calacci--I doubt that there are enough people in Northern Virginia to buy all the half-million dollar condos you are suggesting be built.
I don't live anywhere near low income housing, but cars in my neighborhood have been broken into multiple times over the years.
Personally I don't think developers are evil. I do think they are busy-tailed opportunists who will exploit every avenue to make money without regard to long-term consequences to the community. Our county government leaders should be looking to the long-term. That's why they were elected.
A retail destination at Tall Oaks will need parking.
Kathy Kaplan
Colin Mills
10:46 am on Thursday, January 17, 2013
Kathy, a cooperative grocery store would definitely be an interesting idea! I agree with the idea that if a grocery store were to work in the old Giant space, it would need to be a different kind, whether that means an upscale grocery, a co-op, or a specialty store.
Orlina Tucker
7:19 am on Friday, January 18, 2013
Respectfully Kathy, 3 failed grocery stores are compelling evidence that a grocery store doesn't work at Tall Oaks. There are too many other options in Reston, plus PeaPod.
And while I like the coop idea, I don't think Tall Oaks is the right location for one.
Richard Holmquist
10:31 pm on Saturday, January 26, 2013
As I recall, Orlina, Giant did not "fail". It left for reasons other than profitability. The other two stores catered to specific ethnic markets. If you're going to generalize, you might say that an ethnic low-price supermarket won't work in Tall Oaks. I suspect that a modestly-sized grocery store carrying quality products with English labels would still turn a profit.
Laura Calacci
9:24 am on Thursday, January 17, 2013
Kathy Kaplan,
Making money is not a bad thing. What would be the negative long term consequence to the community that you are referring to?
Kathy
12:21 pm on Thursday, January 17, 2013
The developers on the task force are arguing for increased density along the Dulles corridor that cannot be supported by our road system. That decision to push for FARs of 4 and 5 instead of 2 and 3 may increase developer profits in the short term, but will cost the community down the road a great deal of money. And it may not work out for developers, either, if they can't fill the new office space.
Tysons residents will have their property taxes increased by 10% to help pay for transportation improvements with a "service" district. The Board of Supervisors just voted on that tax increase. The residents didn't get a vote. Someone will have to pay for the new bridges across the Toll Road in Reston. That's what I mean by long term consequences.
You are quite the racist. Perhaps Reston isn't your cup of tea. We are a multicultural community. I suggest you move somewhere else.
Kathy Kaplan
Brian G.
9:52 am on Thursday, January 17, 2013
I've lived all over Reston, to include the condos across the street from Tall Oaks, and I honestly can't figure out what is wrong with that area but it definitely hasn't realized its true potential... I honestly don't know of a worse shopping center in the ENTIRE Herndon/Reston area (in terms of crime, loitering, litter, and general up-keep). I don't really feel too bad for Lake Anne as they created their own problems but repeatedly shooting down revitalization projects so they are the rundown ghetto that they aspired to be, but Tall Oaks and its surrounding residents deserve better.
I think that there are a few good ideas on here... I believe that we DO need to introduce higher-value living in that area (especially with the metro coming), but it should be mixed-use.
Colin Mills
10:49 am on Thursday, January 17, 2013
Thanks for the comment, Brian. As I've said, I agree that Tall Oaks deserves better. You're not the first person to suggest mixed-use, and I could definitely see that as a possible way to go.
Laura Calacci
11:12 am on Thursday, January 17, 2013
Colin,
Read the Fairfax Police Reports that are published every week. The majority of crime in Reston is committed in the low income housing areas by people with Hispanic names. And don't even start saying I am anti-immigrant. I am all for LEGAL immigration. But when the illegals are doing all the crimes & living in the abundant subsidized housing, I have a problem with that. They are sucking up the energy of the police force & clogging up the courts and overcrowding our schools. If you even try to find out the immigration status of these people listed on the police reports, you are demonized. Lets not forget, Bob Simon was FIRED. His vision was and is SOCIALIST. Times change. Its time for Reston to change as well,
Terry Maynard
12:05 pm on Thursday, January 17, 2013
OK, Laura, Bob Simon was definitely a radical for his time, in part by making a highly diverse population--varying economic situations, varying races & ethnicities, etc--and environmental sensitivity cornerstones (more specifically, principles) of the new Reston planned community. A key reason his initial efforts failed was that they were too far ahead of his time--not because he was a socialist.
Village centers as gathering places was another key concept in his vision that was also well ahead of its time. As you know, except for the experiment at Lake Anne, they fell by the wayside to strip malls, including a "do over" at Hunters Woods that made it worse.
If people are to gather, they need to live nearby--what we now call mixed-use neighborhoods. I believe it would be likely that people who live or work at village centers would gather there for lunch, evenings, etc., on plazas and in parks, if they had some attractive, green open space & amenities. That doesn't mean expanding VC perimeters; it means thinking about turning them into mid-density mixed used neighborhoods with all the necessities at hand.
Bob Simon never was a socialist and he certainly isn't one now. Indeed, his views on "capitalist" development as I've witnessed them in the Reston Task Force seem to bend the other way. Still, thanks to his vision, we have a solid planned community foundation to build on, including at Tall Oaks. Our obligation is not to mess it up!
Laura Calacci
12:23 pm on Thursday, January 17, 2013
Terry,
Simon is for redistribution of wealth. He recently was quoted saying something to the effect of "raise the fees...don't worry, just raise the fees. Of course, he meant the Reston fees that we all pay. .But we don't all pay. Lots of people skirt paying by claiming they can't afford it. If you own a property in Reston, you can afford to pay. But no, RA just keeps raising the fees and exempts some people. When these properties are sold, they should "claw back and get the money". Tall Oaks is already messed up, as is Lake Anne. I doubt Simon envisioned loitering, garbage, and homeless people sleeping at Lake Anne. Any yes, I have actually seen a homeless man sleeping near the "bodega" that used to the the video rental place. I also doubt Simon envisioned 3 "bodega-type" stores on the plaza. I also doubt he envisioned the RA buying IPads for the board members, or giving our money to consultants to do a survey about spending, or committing our dues to South Lakes turf fields, or to make a movie about Reston's birthday. The entire concept needs to be reworked .
Laura Calacci
12:33 pm on Thursday, January 17, 2013
Kathy,
How dare you call me a racist! Where did I say anything that is racist? Because I am opposed to illegal immigration and all the problems it causes, you call me racist? FYI, the population that is most hurt by illegal immigration is LEGAL immigrants. Typical lib move...whenever someone disagrees with them, they try to play the race card. But again, what did I say that is racist? Its is the libs who dry to divide by race , class and gender. But alas, Kathy Kaplan, you have NO class.
Kathy
3:28 pm on Thursday, January 17, 2013
Laura,
People who live in subsidized housing in Reston have to be American citizens. Those Hispanics you are railing against are citizens. You are a racist. My politics tend to run toward Eisenhower Republican. Eisenhower proposed a form of health care very close to Obamacare. Richard Nixon proposed the negative income tax. That's back in the day when the Republican party hadn't been taken over by racist southern Dixiecrats.
Kathy Kaplan
Laura Calacci
3:34 pm on Thursday, January 17, 2013
Kathy,
That is simply not true. So since you called me a racist, I'll go ahead and call you a liar.
Orlina Tucker
6:33 am on Thursday, January 24, 2013
they don' t actually have to be citizens; they must be legally in this country however. Legally documented is sufficient, in addition to tax records for income verification, for qualification.
Chris E
3:49 pm on Thursday, January 17, 2013
Put a Dave and Buster's in the grocery store space. Closest one is in Rockville. Too far. Right off the toll road and 7. People would come from all over NOVA and DC.
Colin Mills
4:38 pm on Thursday, January 17, 2013
Good idea, Chris! I'd definitely visit a D&B's. I wonder how the Giant space compares in floor area to a typical D&B's.
Karen Goff
4:23 pm on Thursday, January 17, 2013
Kathy and Laura - let's not turn this into a personal argument. Peace.
DGeorge
4:33 pm on Thursday, January 17, 2013
Karen, I think the name calling " you are quite the racist" is good reason for refusing to let someone participate on this forum. Does the Patch have standards?
Karen Goff
4:37 pm on Thursday, January 17, 2013
Yes, and I am warning them to dial it back before I start deleting comments and banning people. This started escalating on both sides before I could check in.
Karen Goff
4:38 pm on Thursday, January 17, 2013
Everyone, let's stick to the topic - Tall Oaks. Not immigration, crime or anyone's personal beliefs. No name calling or personal attacks either. You know the drill.
Skip Endale
4:56 pm on Thursday, January 17, 2013
Karen, the problem here is that the community is becoming divided over issues that are preventable. Not a fortnight goes by when the police helicopter hangs over Lake Anne below the dead man's curve. In contrast I see the cops out in full force on the bike trail, protecting the good part of town. What we need is a police outpost at Tall Oaks and one at Lake Anne. Perhaps then we would feel less divided over gun ownership, poor people and running a business in general. Its good to have all voices heard, even if they sound shrill. Last but not least, I would like to see law enforcement step up and not sit in some vacant parking lot monitoring the freeway. Better yet, get them to exercise daily and ride a bike or walk a foot patrol around Lake Anne. Its been done in other cities so why not here in Reston?
Laura Calacci
6:44 pm on Thursday, January 17, 2013
Colin,
I choose to stay in Reston because I have lived here since 1984. I have raised two children here and I own two homes here. One in 20194 & one in 20190. I love Reston . And I hate seeing it ruined. Reston used to look like Disneyland. It was immaculate and crime was unheard of. Fairway Dr. and Cameron Crescent were nice communities. Now, Reston is dirty. Trash & animal carcasses sit on the streets for weeks. Crime is a problem. And even though Kathy Kaplan thinks I am a racist, that could not be further from the truth. Karen said this is not a discussion about illegal immigration, but rather about Tall Oaks. I guess Lake Anne kind of piggybacked into the discussion. Lake Anne does not feel safe to me and that is because they have a problem with loitering. It is true that the police told me when my car was broken into, "you live near the low income housing". If I couldn't afford to live here, I would move. Buyers would line up to spend 500K on a townhouse on the golf course between 2 metro stops. . I would not want to risk my money leasing space at Tall Oaks or Lake Anne . Reston must have a higher percentage of low income/sec 8 housing than anywhere else in the county. High concentrations of low income residents are not going to support a gourmet shop or a Dave & Busters. Its simple. The principles of highest & best use should be applied & the problem would be solved.
Colin Mills
10:08 am on Friday, January 18, 2013
Thanks for answering my question, Laura. It's always nice to meet another longtime Restonian. I would say that Lake Anne is in better shape than it was 5 or 10 years ago, with events like the Farmers Market and the Jazz Festival.
Richard Holmquist
11:21 pm on Saturday, January 26, 2013
Laura, I don't think you have a very long memory. Reston has always had the same issues that you're complaining about. Development has brought a lot more people to Reston, but I don't think the problems have grown disproportionately. When the big crimes of the month are graffiti and petty theft, it's clear the place is not dangerous. And you seem ready and willing to trade a few minor inconveniences for the traffic, higher expenses and added pavement that are on the way with the redevelopment that you propose - not a quality of life improvement in my mind.
I agree with Colin that it's important to consider the positive aspects of having affordable housing available in Reston. You're quite vocal about your desire for less economic diversity. I can tell you that growing up in this diverse community during the late 70's & 80s was valuable to me as a military officer and in other management roles I've held during the past 25 years. It's the rare minority of low-income housing residents who are criminals and deadbeats. Most are people we rely on in the community and who play important roles educating our kids, providing necessary services, or protecting our property or freedom.
Tammi Petrine
7:54 pm on Thursday, January 17, 2013
Colin, thanks for a very interesting & timely column this week! Reston definitely needs more indoor recreation facilities.
Wouldn’t Tall Oaks be a fantastic location for the large rec center that was proposed for Brown’s Chapel a couple of years ago? The facility could also provide passive rec space and a gourmet snack bar so chatters, chess/checker players and WIFI’ers could enjoy the location close to the senior high rise across the parking lot.
We need to talk to the County to see if some of our tax monies can finally come back to Reston to help build this needed facility that could also serve the new TOD/Metro areas.
Colin Mills
10:11 am on Friday, January 18, 2013
Thanks, Tammi! Tall Oaks would be a great location for the indoor rec center, I believe. There's room enough to accommodate it, without costing us existing open space. I'd like to see if we could make that happen.
Tammi Petrine
8:02 pm on Thursday, January 17, 2013
Speaking of Hunters Woods, how in the world did RA's DRB approve the "new" paint scheme for this center??? The white facades of the buildings make the strip center look cheap and tacky! So sad... I know the management of the center is planning parking lot changes to accommodate mobility impaired folks which is a huge kudo to them. I'm just sorry that the new color scheme detracts from that noble goal.
DGeorge
7:35 am on Friday, January 18, 2013
New paint at Hunters Woods is just putting lipstick on a pig. Changes nothing.
Southie
12:54 pm on Friday, February 1, 2013
Agreed. More like half a pig with the redesign holdouts of Safeway, Burger King, and Wells Fargo. My vote for Tall Oaks would be a Barns and Noble or a Wegmans.
Jack
8:16 pm on Monday, January 21, 2013
This is a great post Colin !
Thank you for the initiative...
It would be great if we continue this conversation and come up with some action items
Be it reface the entrance , kids play area, indoor swimming , library , Jazz Festival , or whatever serves the community & Reston as a whole
I personally would vote for a Indoor Rec Center and this part of Reston certainly needs ones
Its easy to talk about what we like and its great to hear from so many folks but what are we planning to do next ?
Maybe have a meeting in RA and invite people ?
Have patch send out an online survey ?
Thanks again to you , RCA and Patch !
Colin Mills
8:25 pm on Monday, January 21, 2013
Thanks, Jack! This is obviously a subject that resonates with a lot of people. And I would like to turn this conversation into action.
I'm going to talk to my Board and some other community leaders, and I'll keep you posted on the next steps. Thanks for reading!
Rob Ross
11:23 am on Tuesday, January 22, 2013
Tall Oaks would be an ideal location for a Community Center akin to the one in Herndon (without the baseball fields). Yes, there is the Reston Community Center but I think the area is now large enough for at least one more and frankly RCC is lacking. An indoor pool, exercise equipment, meeting rooms, hand/raquetball, maybe a basketball court. Heck, you could even put in a small Performing Art Center in that space if you wanted (although probably not both). Reston has plenty of commercial options, and the ever-expanding Town Center will provide even more. I've lived within walking distance of Tall Oaks for 15 years now, it's time to go a different direction - a "Reston North Community Center" makes the most sense.
Laura Calacci
11:33 am on Tuesday, January 22, 2013
First of all, no one has mentioned what the owners of the center want to do. Would they prefer to lease the space, leave it vacant until Metro arrives, or sell the shopping center? After all, it is their property. Secondly, I doubt the county would buy it and I certainly hope Reston Association would not consider investing our money in such a venture. So while the speculating is interesting & fun, I doubt any of it will come to fruition. The owners of the center will decide, as they should.
Rob Ross
9:49 pm on Tuesday, January 22, 2013
It's apparent the owners are content to take a financial loss on the property, presumably to write it off and realize a tax savings. To allow that much square footage to go unoccupied for this long (nevermind not renewing the lease at Curves so they could allow.... nothing... to move in) leaves no other explanation as a valid possibility. Their actions (or inaction) make it obvious they do not feel the property can be profitable. Perhaps they are waiting for the Metro to force enough development so that they *have* to be be bought out. Simply put, they are serving as placeholders for the next project. Regardless of what the owners strategy is, the point of the article was to generate ideas for the best use of the property. A mixed-use Rec Center is certainly lacking in this area and would serve the needs of the community better than empty buildings and parking spaces.
Orlina Tucker
7:10 am on Thursday, January 24, 2013
Based on what I've heard from one merchant, the property management raises rents and monthly maintenance fees on the existing merchants to make up some of the income lost on vacancies. At some point, it makes more sense for stores to move elsewhere.
No one is arguing that the owners don' t have the right to sell the property to the highest bidder (I'm hoping for mixed-use residential myself), we're simply discussing our ideas.
Tammi Petrine
1:30 pm on Tuesday, January 22, 2013
Jeez, Laura, you have an amazing grasp of the obvious: of course the owners of the “center” have the last word… or do they? If they have property within the Dulles Toll Road (DTR) corridor, perhaps they could be persuaded to donate or at least sell for a reasonable price their Tall Oaks property to the County for use as a community center in return for maximizing their opportunities.
Please note that I said COUNTY, not RA. Absolutely, positively the county OWES Reston big time for recreation / park expenditures. Given our % of affordable housing and the dearth of parks plus our 100% self-funded RCC, we deserve a substantial facility built and serviced by the county. The parks and rec people always try to lump outside Reston facilities into Reston to claim that we get our fair share. They are kidding no one. Lake Fairfax is not within Reston and is a regional park. Stratford park is ACROSS the FFX Co. Parkway and not a Reston park either. Recently we were told that some south of Reston linear park with no improvements was ours: not so.
So Laura, why not put a little sunshine in your negative posts? Positive thinking will get you a long way when trying to navigate a complex world. Why not think of what could/should be and work toward making it happen?
Laura Calacci
1:47 pm on Tuesday, January 22, 2013
Tammi,
Donate or sell at a "reasonable" price?? HAHAHAHA. Keep on dreaming Tammi. I know a fair amount about real estate development and its clear you have no idea what you are talking about.
Java Master
10:40 pm on Tuesday, January 22, 2013
Hold on there Laura!
I too know a great deal about commercial real estate development & finance, it's been my liveihood for many years, yet my "qualifications" do not give me license to be so utterly dismissive --to the point of insult--of individuals seeking to make well-meaning suggestions, regardless of actual viability in a competitive real estate market. Some of these notions may qualify as pie-in-the-sky thinking, but are still interesting to note. Hey, RA , r u listening to ur residents?
And while I occasionally enjoy mixing it up with certain anti-growth, anti-development interests on Reston blogs ( there may be a special circle in hades for a few of these people, of that I am certain) I try not to be doctrinaire or arbitrary in my views, and I don't blame Reston's issues on immigrants, or poor people, or liberals, or the guy who didn't pick up the roadkill on North Shore Drive last week. And I would never castigate someone for an errant post, no matter how certain I was of my own position. I just admit to the disagreement and move on, and that is exactly what I suggest you do. I have no idea what the future holds for the Tall Oaks property ( or Lake Anne Plaza, for that matter and the bungled planning process there so far is truly a tragedy). My suggestion would be an intensive residential redevelopment, but who knows? I'm not purchasing the site anyway! Eventually the owners will stop tallying their tax losses and move forward. Getting off the soap box now.
Tammi Petrine
2:20 pm on Tuesday, January 22, 2013
Wow, Laura, you are on a roll, aren't you? Ever hear of "proffers?"
Orlina Tucker
6:55 am on Thursday, January 24, 2013
Tammy,
this is one of the ideas my DH and I have been bouncing around for some time. FFX Co buys the property for a negotiated, lower price. In return, the Co grants tax credits and such to the property owner on other properties in the Co. Co turns in into a Co rec center.
It really does seem like the property owner is holding out to sell it to developers though
Jack
1:42 pm on Friday, January 25, 2013
Can we can start by getting some street lighting on wiehle avenue
Given the metro is coming & traffic would be crazy , would be good for people to see where they are going and maybe find Tall Oks center while they are driving on wiehle avenue
Whats the process to request for street lighting on wiehle avenue ?
Can someone please respond
Thanks!
Richard Holmquist
11:32 pm on Saturday, January 26, 2013
Your headlights don't work?
Thanks for your post from Mike Collins. I like his summary of the issue. "Some people like the dark; some don't." I'm from the "dark side."
Jack
4:33 pm on Friday, January 25, 2013
Here is patch comment from Mike Collins ( (Reston Association - Board of Directors ) how to request lighting on one of the main streets near the future Metro
Mike Collins : 1:42 pm on Friday, January 25, 2013
""I understand that lighting has been an issue for years with various advocacy groups, task forces, community meetings, action plans, demonstration projects, etc.. Short version: Some people like the dark; some don't. I asked Supervisor Hudgins office for the latest thinking at the county level and her staff provided the following info:
"Installation of street lighting is primarily dependent on funding availability. FFX County has been relying on redevelopment for new street lights. There is a small amount of funding available for street light funding in the Hunter Mill District and our office is in the process of setting up a street light task force to discuss future street lighting endeavors in Reston."
"As Reston moves towards a 24/7 community, we will have to balance safety concerns with light pollution concerns. This will be addressed through our task force. FFX County has a site detailing some street light information at http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/dpwes/construction/streetlights/light_main.htm";;
For further info and to make a specific recommendation, I would suggest contacting
Paul Davis
Legislative Aide
Supervisor Catherine M. Hudgins
Hunter Mill District Office
Phone: 703-478-0283
Email: Paul.Davis@fairfaxcounty.gov
-Mike
Jack
4:35 pm on Friday, January 25, 2013
Here is the correct link
http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/dpwes/construction/streetlights/light_main.htm