Not to be argumentative, but a possible reason that South Lakes (and some other schools) have the ranking that they do is because of the IB program. From what I have observed, students, parents and even some teachers tend to be a bit daunted by IB, especially because, since the program is graded on an international scale, it can be tougher to get a "top" grade compared to AP, even with the added bonus of the bell curve. Thus, more students, wanting a better grade, choose to go the AP route.

Another reason (unless the index is counting honors/Pre-IB classes) might be because AP classes can be started and tested in any year of high school, while the actual IB Diploma Program/IB classes can only be participated in during 11th/12th grades. Even then, most class options for the Diploma Program are 2-year courses; so students generally take many exams their senior year, resulting in fewer students testing overall.

Why does this story have a sports slug?

Or is this a clever reference to the sport in which parents engage as to which of their children's school is "better?"

Also how is Herndon High a Reston school? It's not even located in Hunter Mill district, unless it got moved in the middle of the night.

Do the Mayor and the Herndon Town Council know you've appropriated their school? They can't be happy.

Last time I looked at the numbers less than 20% of Reston kids go to Herndon.

A fair number of Reston kids go to PVI, Flint Hill and TJ too.

And if South Lakes dropped IB to become an AP school, I would immediately transfer to either Annandale, Robinson or Stuart.
(The only other FCPS IB schools.)

Well, South Lakes, Robinson and Annandale are all very large, diverse schools. Stuart and Marshall are grouped (somewhat) near each other, and they both don't receive anywhere near the amount of funding that the other three do. There also seems to be one in each (sports) district, if that's at all relevant. SLHS and Marshall are in Liberty, Robinson's in the Concorde District, Stuart's from the National District, and the Patriot District has Annandale to contend with.

AM and Willem, if SLHS is turning out students such as you two, who can beautifully use the written word to make clear, convincing, and still respectful points, I'd say it's doing something right. Congratulations to your parents and teachers for their example, and especially to you students for your hard work, dedication and caring.

Thank you! I'll be sure to pass that along to my parents--they'll be happy to know that they're doing something right!

Know this is a little off topic, but did anyone else happen to see the article in today's Metro section about FCPS ditching honors courses in the fall in favor of a more AP-based curriculum (for underclassmen)?
Nothing is particularly upsetting to me about that, except for the part stating that "the eight IB schools in the school system will keep 'basic' classes as its second track". Does that mean that I, as a rising sophomore, will be stuck in general education English until I'm old enough to be an actual diploma candidate? I really don't think that I (or any other future IB student) particularly belong in a class that does so little writing.

At least they're not getting rid of the IB diploma....

SLHS used to refer to sophomore English as pre-IB English. I think they don't use that name any more but there is a sophomore English class for those on the IB track.

Ask your guidance counselor to explain the progression of IB classes. That explanation should have happen when you signed up for next years classes which should have happened already.

As the proud parent of one SLHS graduate and one who is a sophomore...and being a product of the AP curriculum myself when I went to High School some years ago...and graduating from an Ivy league institution...my wife and I are absolutely ecstatic that both of our kids have (and have had) the opportunity to be enrolled in IB courses and in the case of the younger one in the diploma program.

Overall, we believe that the IB program will better prepare my kids for the real life...from the emphasis on communications and writing, team projects, community service, international awareness, etc...The IB program brings it all together in contrast to the AP track (which I took) which focuses on individual courses that may or may not have anyhting to do with each other.

So, as far as we are concerned, we are extremely pleased to be part of the South Lakes community, and we believe that the school is continue to improve academically and offering attractive academics.

Peace out.

Mr. Farrell:

Sir, with all due respect, could you be kind enough to provide a reference source for "For 96% of South Lakes kids, IB doesn't work, it limits course selection for all of them because IB requires a select group of its courses that must be provided at SLHS to maintain its participation in IB and kids are assigned to pre-IB and IB courses without the informed consent of them or their parents to maintain minimum enrollment in those classes to satisfy FCPS staffing ratios." Thanks.

As for, "Given the diversity of backgrounds, inclinations, interests and proclivities of the entirety of the South Lakes student body, AP was and is the better choice."...you certainly are entitled to your opinion, though, I am not so sure that you have either universal or even majority agreement.

Respectfully yours.

And for the allegation that students get placed into IB classes, is that just an opinion or is that a fact based on some source?

Out of curiosity, do you have a kid at SL or about to go there? What's your horse in this race?

Thanks.

Also, South Lakes's special education department is so large that they've had to make a fifth subschool and smaller-size, "less-overwhelming" classes for it--many of the kids in this program can get so overwhelmed with advanced course offerings that very few think to attempt the certificate option, and even fewer partake in the Diploma Program--(personally, if I am successful, I will be one of the first in the program to complete it)--so that means that there are about 150-200 students who are counted in the general SLHS consensus but haven't even considered such an academically rigorous program.

Personally, I am done dwelling on the past, more particularly on this article. I am not alive to hold grudges, and, obviously, you're gonna think what you believe; your unwillingness to relent something that I would say that I admire in you. I cannot change your opinion, just as you will find it impossible to change mine.

Now, if you guys don't mind, I've got to study; I have my first SOL test tomorrow.
(As long as no one gives me the opportunity to voice my opinions on NCLB, I'll pass, anyway.)

Agree completely with John Farrell. IB benefits very few. Of course these two young students are the exception. Thank you for speaking the truth John Farrell.

Mr. Farrell: I am sorry that you had this experience - "Personal experience of 3 kids through SLHS with IB and one through SLHS with AP. All three were placed into IB/pre-IB classes against my explicit instructions. In each instance it was explained that they needed to fill up the class.".

Not sure when these events occured, however, what you describe seems to be totally opposite to the experience I have had with my two kids over the last five years. I have not heard of one case over this period either publicly or via my childrens's friends or parents, either in or out of IB, of a "forced" placement as you describe, and with no ability to switch out based on individual scholastic needs. This was also confirmed by a current SL Asst. principal.

I know that many are unhappy for whatever reasons with FCPS and/or SL, but, again, based on my experience and those in our ecosystem, I do not believe that SL is run as a dictatorship.

AM and Willem: I, for one, am extremely proud of the two of you, as well as my two kids (as well as many other hard working, and high-aspiring SL IB kids) for being good ambassadors for your school and for the IB program.

Congratulations toyou and your parents, best of luck in your academic endeavors and may your dreams come true as you embark on what I do not have a doubt will be a very successful journey.

As a former SLHS parent, my child graduaated only last year, I found the IB atmosphere a little strange and pompous. I understand that any advanced high school classes, IB or AP, are going to challenge the students who can handle them. IB should be a choice, not forced as it is in South Lakes. IB is present whether your kid is in the actual IB program or not. IB is indoctrinating unlike AP. IB has its own unique philosophy. I suppose if you agree with IB philosophy you will like the IB atmosphere. I say boot the IB program and teach subjects, not philosophy. I resent the brainwashing that goes with IB.

I am sorry that you find the SLHS atmosphere strange and pompous. Based on the comments posted here by students, my own kids' experience, their circle of friends, teammates and fellow participants in leadership and other extracurricular activities and their parents, I have never heard that commentary or anything close to it ever being used to describe SL. On the contrary, at least within this group, the general feeling seems to be one of pride in the school.

Seemingly, the ones having issues are the grownups, not the kids.

IB is a CHOICE for those that decide to pursue it. For those that decide that they would rather pursue AP, there are plenty of nearby schools that offer that option. Nobody is forcing anything on anybody...this is not a dictatorship.

I resent your inference that those pursuing IB courses or the IB diploma track and their parents cannot think for themselves and are not smart enough to know whether they are brainwashed or not. And if by indocrination you mean a heavy emphasis on writing and community service and being part of a global world, then I for one am fine with that.

Peace.

All students at South Lakes are subjected to the IB curriculum, approach, whatever you want to call it. That is what I said. Even the regular classes are taught from an IB perspective. I have a suggestion for you Bert. YOU go choose a "nearby" school. Now I will shut up or else Karen will threaten to delete my comments. Once in a while I need to stand up to the IB parents.

Yes, my child tells me there are certain rules to be followed...and even though some rules amy not be palatapble to me and/or others, I am sure there is a good reason for most/all of them. I am also absolutely sure that some of these rules are specific to South Lakes, and equally sure that everybody can not do whatever they want to do at every other school.

Even in our democracy there are certain rules and regulations that are not truly agreed to by all, but must be followed never the less...i.e. paying taxes, not speeding, etc.

Again, sorry that your kids apparently had a miserable experience at SL. Virtually all the kids/families are at worst indifferent, but the great majority of our friends and acquaintances are happy at SL.

Well, I guess that this is not one that we will settle...and I am sorry Stacy that you are making this personal on the basis of your comments.

I am taking the liberty of (re)quoting/posting my young friend AM...
"Personally, I am done dwelling on the past, more particularly on this article. I am not alive to hold grudges, and, obviously, you're gonna think what you believe; ... I cannot change your opinion, just as you will find it impossible to change mine."

You seem angry and begrudging... I hope that at some point you will find inner peace.

Off to focus on more productive things.

Shalom

John...thank you for the civil debate...I enjoye it.

My last reply...not sure how many kids/families we know...I can say that between my two kids, soccer team, gymnastics team, classes, etc and via new social networking tools between the two of them they probably interacted in some fashion or another with a several hundred kids.

As for mix, because my daughter was taking certificate courses and because of my son's friends have been made on the soccer team (i.e. not all academic friends), there is a fairly-wide mix of IB vs. not-IB...though the majority are probably not IB kids.

Thank you for your wishes for my kids. Best to you and yours as they move on in the world..

Truce.

Bert

Not what I said...said that my kids have interacted with several hundred kids and/or families...

and "Virtually all the(se) kids/families are at worst indifferent, but the great majority of our friends and acquaintances are happy at SL."...

"I (or my kids) have never heard that commentary (i.e. SL IB atmosphere being pompous and strange) or anything close to it ever being used to describe SL. On the contrary, at least within this group, the general feeling seems to be one of pride in the school."...

"I have not heard of one case over this period either publicly or via my childrens's friends or parents, either in or out of IB, of a "forced" placement as you describe, and with no ability to switch out based on individual scholastic needs."

Is everyone talking about the same school? I have a freshman who LOVES the school. I'm sure we can find something to complain about in every Fairfax County school. I teach my children that your feelings and opinions are all valid...it is what you do about them that counts. AM - Kudos to you!!!

Humble parent. You sound defensive. Why be defensive if SL is so great because of IB?

Not to rain on anyone's parade or anything, but I can't help but sit here and laugh. Do you adults hear how ridiculous you sound? I mean, come on, how old are you? You sound like a bunch of children who don't want to share their crayons. Have you noticed that the only people on here who don't like South Lakes are the adults? Obviously the kids love - and take pride - in their school. You all complain about how much your kids aren't learning at South Lakes, but they aren't the ones on here bashing each other and saying a bunch of things that aren't true - so obviously South Lakes is teaching them SOMETHING right. It doesn't really matter what any of you say or think, there are plenty of us that LOVE South Lakes and wouldn't choose any other school! So if South Lakes is so bad, do us all a favor, DO SOMETHING about it; don't just sit here all day, every day complaining.

You know parents...the Ivy League looks highly at IB. AP? have you taken OUR IB tests? it takes more sophistication and effort for an IB test. and the reason why many kids do not receive the IB diploma is because they don't give a a crap for the IB exams. so, don't complain about the SCHOOL, you should complain about the lack of motivation your kids have. I'm a senior at SL, I've done ALL my work throughout high school, I'm a full on IB diploma student. ANYONE can be an IB student. Students have the choice to be one or not. So, if your kid chooses to be one, good for them. It's going to help YOUR kids in the end because of all the writing we've done throughout school. Don't sit here on your butts and complain. Because of IB, I KNOW college will be a breeze for me. I'll no longer have to pull all nighters in my life writing a paper because I'll know how to write a good paper. AP can't teach you that. AP can only teach you how to choose the "best" answer out of the choices they give you. If you don't want your kids exposed to the wonderful program known as IB, then please leave SL :D

John,

While I am sorry to hear that your children were "forced" to take IB courses against your instructions, but from my and what seems to be many commenting perspective, this simply is not the case for most students. As for who I am, I am a South Lakes alumni that graduated in 2010 like your child. Nobody at South Lakes are forced to take IB courses. If you a referring to the college level courses, such as calculus (known as IB Math in SLHS), and that IB is the only option for these higher level courses, this is because the school itself is an IB school. I could say the same about AP schools, they are limiting my higher level courses to only AP. If this is the case I would say going to another nearby high school would be the best option, since in the FCPS system the only higher level courses offered are strictly AP or IB.

You also mentioned that your children could not switch out of IB courses they are taking till after 1st quarter. This is the school's policy on switching out of any class, not just IB courses. I believe this policy is in place in order to make registration for classes go more smoothly. The policy is also in place to keep students from switching out during the first week or so, when they have barely experience what the class will be like for the year. Please keep in mind this policy is in place once classes have started and anytime before they are free to switch. (My comment is rather long and will continue in the next post).

I personally had a similair issue and got it worked out over the summer through email with a counselor.

Also John, please back up your statistics you are using in your comments with concrete sources and evidence. I am not saying your stating incorrect facts, but I would like to see where these numbers are originating from. Do not ask me to go and ask conselors and to look for the sources myself, since the burden of evidence is on you. (You are making these claims, I am not). Such as "less than 20% of Reston kids go to Herndon," and your other claims that, "For 96% of South Lakes kids, IB doesn't work." And please dont make this personal with comments such as, "My youngest was miserable, especially after his friend, Josh Anderson, died." That was simply uncalled for and disrespectful to Josh since his death is in no way relevant to why SLHS is responsible for the "miserable" experience your child had. (An experience many students would not agree with, including myself and much of the class of 2010 I was close friends with.)

As for the IB vs AP debate, it is simply an opinion as to which curriculum is better for students. Both have their advantages and disadvantages. From my personal experience, IB has much better prepared me for college than the AP curriculum would have for me. (And that college is NYU if you are curious). Not once did I have to pull an all-nighter to get a paper or report done for any of my college courses this year, and had a successful first year.

Also, Reston has 3 different zip codes...20194, 20190, 20191.

20194 go to Herndon

20190 and 20191 go to South Lakes

and RIP Josh Anderson

Guys. Almost the entire class of 2010 went to good Virginia Universities. There were also a handful of students who got accepted into ivy league schools. Why? Because these kids took IB courses, or went for the full diploma. Please get your facts together because an emotional argument does not always win.