Butler has lost all sense of proportion.

An acknowledged small foolish action is no justification for the leader of a group of 2000 young people to label any child as "morally corrupt."

A public apology from him to those children is in order, immediately.

The West Springfield principal similarly overreacted to a food fight, initially. He ultimately found wisdom by giving those involved in wasting food an opportunity to do community service feeding the hungry.

Reston has many such opportunities and those children involved at South Lakes should be expected to perform similar acts of reconciliation.

To quote a recent US President, they were the young and stupid acting young and stupid.

What's Butler's excuse?

"Morally corrupt," "decadent indifference, " "incredibly dangerous?" I think Principal Butler can get his point across without resorting to those sorts of loaded phrases. Kids lead away in handcuffs because of a food fight? Where is the proportionality?
I agree, food fights are not a joke. But, why didn't Principal Butler state in his letter that the "A" lunch students involved in this wasteful, hazardous and disruptive behavior spent the next hour cleaning up the mess and personally apologizing to the custodial and cafeteria staff? Seems to me he missed a teachable moment. I would go further, and have all of the "A" lunch students clean up the mess, regardless of their participation in the food fight. Call down the Student Council leadership to supervise. That sends a real message.

I've been a big fan of Bruce Butler, but this message is over the top. Teenagers make a lot of bad decisions, but calling them "morally corrupt" is completely out of line.

Blown away by the over the top comments from the administration. Either I'm missing some facts such as, this was directed at a physically or mentally disabled student/teacher - or something similar, or I don't have a clue how this is "morally corrupt".
Punishment??? OH YEA!!! They should have been cleaning on their hands and knees. Community Service - all for it if it fits the "crime". Suspension, morally corrupt, revoking graduation privileges, criminal charges........ OVER the TOP!!!
Suspension - so we punish the kids by not educating them????? - That makes sense????!!!!!

What about the verbal abuse that the teachers and other students endure daily???? What about the REAL physical fights that occur often???? I could go on. I haven't received one e-mail regarding any of them and YES they are happening!

I think we have a lot of balancing to do!!!

Signed a frustrated South Lakes parent

I found Principal Butler's email laughable! It read like a high-school kid's attempt to sound really intelligent and convincing in order to get a good grade. I think he over-used his thesaurus; he's trying too hard! Perhaps he's trying to be like his IB students, after all IB is short for IBS (I can B* S*).

And so I reply to Mr. Butler: I am exceedingly disappointed in you and your gratuitous use of intimidating vocabulary. Just kidding, I think you're a great principal, but you are out of line on this one, calling those kids "morally corrupt."

As for having the kids clean up their own mess - I think it's a good idea, but I wouldn't want the kids to think that they could start a food fight any time they wanted to get out class. I can just see it, a group of kids don't want to take a test after lunch, so they start a food fight. No, I think community service or staying after to clean elsewhere in the school are better solutions. Or what about having to write an IB research paper on the dangers of food fights? It would probably read a lot like Mr. Butler's email!!! ;-)

I found this email highly offensive. First, it was full of typos and misspellings, which have been corrected in the version above. Second, calling children "morally currupt" (sic, his original spelling) is out of line. What does he know about students' moral compasses? Third, he always trots out penalties and punishments rather than seeing this as something that should be addressed as a teachable moment. I wrote to him and told him that the elected student representatives should gather their peers in a large meeting and have a heart-to-heart about treating everyone -- including the cafeteria staff, the gardeners, the bus drivers, the nurse, the janitoral staff, the librarians, EVERYONE -- with the same respect they themselves demand. This could have been a very fine opportunity for teaching and learning; instead, he made it a law-and-order issue that incensed many reasonable parents.

Bug-
I am a Junior at South Lakes, (I had "D" lunch that day)and there are hardly any fights. Every month or two there are "confrontation", but other students stop it before anyone gets hurt.
Postscriptum: I agree with everything else you said.

I am a freshman at South Lakes who is extremely proud of her school, but, [in my opinion] this fight has been a disgrace to my school's pristine reputation.
The main reason why this fight (or any fight at A lunch) is a significantly larger deal than food fights at any other lunch is because A lunch is the lunch assigned to ID/IDS (Intellectual Disability/ID Severe) students. Because some of these kids also have physical disabilities, the whole group sits near the exit in case an immediate, urgent escape is needed (fire). I had C lunch, but from what I've heard today, students were all but trampling these "special needs" students in order to escape from the mess.

Also, I think that a valid conjuncture why the responsible students weren't made to clean up the mess is that, for this week and next, the entire building is on an adjusted schedule to accommodate SOL testing. Many students from the fight had A lunch only because they had to rush off to their tests immediately following. I still think that they should have had to stay after school to clean up the mess (Wednesdays are, after all, late bus days), but, given the circumstances, it was impossible to immediately deal with this situation the way that I think it would have been dealt with, had this fight happened almost any other time during the school year.

The folks at Farifax Underground had fun with the multiple typos in Butler's letter:

"Does anyone use spell check anymore? I get typos, but c'mon, you're a high school principal for crying out loud! Learn how to spell!

Sadley = Sadly

Currupt = Corrupt

Jepordize = Jeopardize

Unbelievable. This guy is supposed to be an educator? Heaven help us."

Yes, I know I'm guilty of some misses here but not in my office work.

I'll shut up after this, but, unless I misread the title and description, as well as the entire article, this was originally posted to inform the Reston Community of a certain local public high school's first lunch block gone out-of-hand, not a commentary criticizing such trivial matters as the South Lakes principal's grammatical errors.

No one is even anywhere relatively close to perfect (as an insane wannabe-perfectionist, I should talk); and, in my opinion, Mr. Butler has been and is still doing an exemplary job serving as the principal, "team leader" and role model for the establishment that many (including me) will say that they are proud of attending, teaching, volunteering, or coaching at.

Peace out.

Stacey, you do seem to have a vendetta against Mr. Butler, BUT, with respect to your dislike of him for whatever reason, you are in an infinitesimal minority. You have made your point, we get it...you don't like him, you don't like a lot of stuff at SL.

Now, especially that your kids are out of SL, be a grown-up and move on...let go already. Let those that are now stakeholders there resolve their own problems.

It is a free country so you can criticize all you want, I get that too, but, I am not sure how your negativity about every little thing about him or SL adds to a positive solution.

Thank you.

Very grown up...Way to foster a positive discussion...Congratulations.

I concede that you can criticize all you want...

You win...OK?

Balance is a lot more productive than pettiness.

Justine...relative to the second sentence of your reply...haven't noticed...haha

Thanks for the note...very much appreciated...actually it has not had any negative impact on me...I am more amused than upset...

Love the publication and I think it adds a a lot of value to our community. Kudos to all on staff and contributors.

Cheers

Juts chiming in to say Mr. Butler's original email was edited to conform to Patch style and not because of any bias. We have the first email in its original format here: http://patch.com/A-hL9Q.

Kinda got off track people. What can a school official do other than send a letter/email out to the community. Invite the kids over to your house and have a food fight in your kitchen- would that be ok? doubt it - what kind of letter would you send out?

I know this will be pointless for some...but nevertheless I will take one more shot at a civil discussion...and then probably sign off on this topic.

I am genuinely and honestly sorry for the poor experiences some of your kids or yourselves at SL and/or Mr. Butler...I understand that you are frustrated and believe that some of you have had it...I get that. I respect that and am not trying to minimize your experiences and your views regarding your experiences.

Mistakes do happen...every single one of us makes them...including even perfect people like myself (and just to be clear so there is no confusion, I am joking here)...and I am sure that Mr. Butler and others at SL have made them...I get that too.

BUT, having said, judging by my family's five-year experiences at SL and with the admin staff, and by the general feeling of pride and happiness expressed by my kids' friends and families in SL, and even by those posting on all these school articles, I believe that the overwhelming majority is at a minimum satisfied, if not happy with the SL experience. Even many of those that posted about Mr. Butler mishandling this particular incident, appear to be satisfied or happy with him and the school.

CONTINUED BELOW

So, what I am trying to say is that commentary along the lines of how kids have been demeaned for years on, in my opinion, is not useful for one because I don't believe it reflects the grand majority of experience and for two because I don't see how this commentary will affect a change in whatever you hope to change. I am not sure what your desired outcome is and how this contributes to that goal.

I am sure some of you will take some pot shots, and so be it...and some may even make it personal...and that is ok, I have thick skin enough to take it.

Love and kisses to all

Read this story from May 16 Washington Post: http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/at-fairfax-high-a-new-dance-before-the-prom/2011/05/16/AFj7rE5G_story.html. It tells the story of an over-the-top method of asking a girl to go the prom. Two lads enlist the help of their guidance counselor in their elaborate effort to ask two lasses to the prom:
“It was pretty scary. It said, ‘COME TO GUIDANCE IMMEDIATELY.’ It was written in capital letters. It’s never good to get called to guidance, but when it says ‘IMMEDIATELY’ in capital letters, you pretty much know you’re done. . . I was really freaking out. I was like, ‘What did I do? I didn’t do anything!’ ”
Beall said in his best deadpan that he had heard some allegations about illegal activity at a party. “Your names came up,” Beall told the girls.
"Sam saw her future flash before her eyes. No more Virginia Tech, no more opportunity to earn a place on the soccer team. Allison saw any opportunity to get accepted into college flying right out of the guidance office door.
Desperately, Sam pleaded her case. “I told him, ‘I have an alibi for Saturday night! I don't even drink!’ ” Sam recalled. Beall. . . told the girls they would have to go into another room and discuss the incident further with “some people” in there. He escorted them into the darkened guidance counselors' lounge. They feared they were about to be confronted by everyone from their principal to the chief of police."

You have been heard, you are not crazy...but I continue to suggest you are a minority. No, we do not have a scientific poll to six sigma to prove either way.

What we do have is anecdotal evidence, for example, the general consensus on commentary on these pages that the problem you seem to indicate, ie Mr. Butler is terrible, is that your assertion is not supported by others. You even had a couple of kids on one of the other commentaries, pleading with you to respect them and their feelings.

Now that I understand that your goal is to remove Mr. Butler, it makes sense why the commentary. You are within your right to.do so for whatever reason. Your stand however does not seem to be supported by many others, no matter how much you comment on it.

Contd

As for the bullying comment, not sure what exactly you mean about that. For the most part, most replies appear to be civil...sure there is disagreement...but just like you have opinions those with opposing views are also entitled to their opinions, and if that is what you call bullying then we have a definitional disagreement.

If anything, at least one person in your camp is bullying those on my side with personal attacks.

I respect that at least you are conducting your dialogue in a civil manner.

Peace

Ok John. You too can win and have the last word on this.

You guys are right and I am delusional. I concede. Good luck in your crusade, even though it's a crusade that no longer impacts you directly, therefore I can only guess then that is all about vengeance. Hope you find that inner peace.

Signing off this thread. You can have it all to yourselves. Thanks for playing.

Have a nice weekend. See you on the next one, as I am sure there will be another one onthe near future. Cheers

John - On this thread, the majority seem to be those who yell the loudest. I am sure there are many, many, many folks who are perfectly happy with South Lakes and Mr. Butler, they are just too exhausted by the noise here to chime in. Now please, go have a nice weekend.

Excuse me for chiming in on this thread. I am a proud Seahawk freshman, who was not present at the food fight, however heard of the news fairly quickly.
I believe the issue that needs to be discussed is how this event affects the great groups of people that my diverse school offers, and not a place to vent about all the problems South Lakes may, or may not, have. I may be biased because I attend South Lakes, however I think this qualifies for school pride, one of our main principles along with readiness, respect, and responsibility. I can tell you that in my first year here, I have neither witnesssed nor heard rumors about any other situations that qualify as a "fight" or "disturbance." We have seen small shouting matches however those instances were quickly resolved.
I'll also discuss some of these other issues that seem to have been brought up. First, the IB program. The program is very unique and I believe that it stresses some great values and principles. I am only a freshman, as I mentioned before, so I am only a part of the IB MYP program, for the younger students as a lead in to the IB diploma program. I can tell you from experience that this is not an easy undertaking and that people have a lot of pressure in their high school careers. The requirements for the IB diploma are very srenuous however teach you many important lessons about our world. These teachings really transform the way we, as students, look at our world. (continued below)

I think the IB is a positive program and not just something to "BS" in order to get by.
Whoops I spelled "strenuous" wrong! I think you know what I will discuss next. Mr. Butler is a very nice man and I applaud his grueling efforts to maintain a safe environment at South Lakes, including his email. I have interviewed him previously for the South Lakes Sentinel, and he was very kind and busy becuase he has a hefty job, South Lakes principal. I do admit that I was shocked by the negativity and the grammar in the letter, however something needed to be said to Seahawk parents. It was a heat of the moment response, and people may have found it offensive, but Mr. Butler is only trying to fix the situation. What would you have said?? Oh, you probably didn't think of that. Also, one thing you may not know is that Mr. Butler apologized for his letter in another email to South Lakes, and was proud of the way lucnhes went the next day. He is only trying to help. (continued below)

The final issue that I will discuss is the redistricting of the South Lakes pyramid. I was one of the few who were redistricted from the Madison pyramid to the South Lakes pyramid. Only five of my fellow elementary students continued on to Hughes Middle School, because their parents didn't support the new boundaries and sent them to private school or moved back into the Madison pyramid. Only two from my class, including myself, continued on to South Lakes. South Lakes in the past has had a "bad" reputation for being "ghetto," and people wince when I tell them I go here. I'll even say I was skeptical when I started school here of its rumored environment. However, now that I attend South Lakes, my mind has changed. We have beautiful art work and a clean school here at South Lakes with state of the art technology in every classroom, with great teachers to match. We also have a magnificent student body that it seems very few of you commenting above have heard about. We have achieved many great things at our school, too many to mention.
My school is fantastic, and so is the Reston Patch! Both are doing their part to maintain a safe school environment and deliver the news respectively. That will be all! Have a great Memorial Day weekend!

I think it was pretty wrong of the principal to say the students are morally corrupt. All they did was start a food fight. I agree that it is a wrong thing to do but in the end they were trying to have fun. I don't understand how the fight was 'incredibly dangerous' either. That is actually TOO funny that he would think that.
A friend of mine had 'A' Lunch that day and she was sitting directly next to the table that started it. She told me that the first threw a piece of pie or something over 2 tables down and then threw a bag of chips into the air. Then a couple of cartons of milk were thrown around. It was nothing extremely bad. I'm not supporting the food fight, because i wouldn't want to have been there, but i think the e-mail that he sent out was extremely overexaggerated.

One of my friends was involved.
Apparently, she got a face full of salad, a shirt full of chips, and a Powerade bottle hit her in the head.
Doesn't really sound that minor to me....

And also, do we REALLY have pies??
That sounds somewhat good....

Okay wow parents. some of you are acting a bit immature.
I'm a senior at South Lakes and I have had a wonderful experience there. I'm sure Mr. Butler was just exaggerating on the whole "morally corrupt" aspect. who gives a damn? honestly. He isn't calling YOUR child morally corrupt. He's a wonderful principal. Some students needs to grow up. Actually, a lot at South Lakes have to. But it isn't the school's fault, it's actually the parenting :D I mean, some of you parents actually let your kids bring pounds of makeup to school and hair straighteners so that in the morning they can all get "dolled" up. hahaha for education? nope, very doubtful. and I would LOVE for you, parents, to read your children's essays for spelling mistakes. He isn't perfect :)

I was present at the food fight last week, but did not participate. What happened was that a few students took it upon themselves to throw a few food items, only to be immediately stopped by the administration. Unfortunately, a few others saw this as a window of opportunity to begin a food fight that lasted for literally all of a minute. Yes, there was a mess left over, but many of the South Lakes students present took it upon themselves to help clean up what they could before were ushered out of the cafeteria. This sort of behavior isn't an everyday occurence, but we are mature enough as a student body to handle it on the rare occasions this sort of thing does happen.
On the topic of Mr. Butler, he's an amazing principal. I've heard stories of principals of other FCPS schools who are never seen nor heard. Mr. Butler takes the time to learn students' names, patrols the cafeteria with a trash can during lunch, and participates in the school talent show. The fact that he was incredibly angry after the food fight shouldn't be as big of an issue as people on this thread are making it out to be. If this was your school and this kind of event occurred, wouldn't you be enraged? And before you say that this sort of behavior shouldn't occur, think about it - would you be able to do a better job corralling 2,000 teenagers for seven hours a day? Mr. Butler is fantastic at what he does.

Stacey- I wasn't talking to YOU specifically and I'm not sure I understand your response :)

*laughs out loud* go ahead and insult me if you want, I don't care ;)

And thanks for the positive post Katherine!
I'm really glad us students are actively participating in this "discussion" that some ADULTS have turned into a hatred forum for Mr. Butler.

Hi John:

Hope you and all others on this thread had a good weekend.

I had promised to sign off this thread, but in the spirit of equal time, and since you answered my questions(s), I will do one more round and then hope to sign off for good, and await the next encounter.

Let me take the questions that are apparently easier to answer.

You and I violently agree that if we can make things better, then we should try...and that is not to be opposed. You gave me specific examples of failures and I conceded early on that we all (except for my bride) make mistakes.

Where we do disagree however is as to the degree of mistakes these are and how to change the status quo for the better. I am not denying that some of the instances that you quote should have perhaps been handled differently. I think many of the instances you quote are not absolute, rather they are a matter of opinion.

continued

However there is a very, very, very long stretch to go from one or two or three mistakes or even a handful over seven years to "Those of us who have had enough, more than enough, exposure to Butler's performance in his job have reached a conclusion that he doesn't cut it." and "Butler's catalog of transgressions takes up too much space" all the way to" Butler's immature hyperbolic aspersions of "moral corruption" are of a piece with failure and so many other actions that can only lead any objective observer to know its time to move on" and" longer pattern of demeaning the SLHS student body that has gone on at SLHS for 14 years" and "Butler's actions over 7 years, as demonstrated by this latest episode, shows that we can do better and have to. It took 7 years to get rid of his predecessor. We heard comments like yours about her too. But we persevered".

Just because someone makes mistakes does not make him/her a bad person. There are plenty of things that I do not like about the US, but overall it is a great place and overall the good by far outweighs the bad. There are some things such as me leaving the toilet seat up and splashing water all over the bathroom that my wife does not like about me, but that does not make me a bad husband that she is ready to divorce because of it.

continued 2

There are certain things my boss does not like about my performance, but my boss does not fire me...and lastly, I may speed and get caught once in a while, but I do not get sentenced to capital punishment for it...which is what you and one or two other people appear to be suggesting through your comments relative to Mr. Butler.

I have told you before that I am not dismissive of your grievances, what I am dismissive of is your tireless and singular focus on getting rid of Bruce Butler, which based on my family's ecosystem's experiences provides no basis of support to your position. You argued correctly that I do not have fool or full proof of speaking for a majority absent a reliable poll. I will grant you that. HOWEVER, if Mr. Butler's so called transgressions would be as serious as you claim and deserving of his "moving on", there would be a lot more in the village amongst the parents and the kids, possibly in the local papers, in the athletic events stands, the PTA, the school board, even the Patch, etc that would speak out...With the exception of one or two other people from your camp replying to the articles, this just ain't so.

continued 3

I have further decided to conduct a non-scientific poll among a group of recent alumni, current students and parents. Here is what I found...

14 students responding...class of 2010 through 2014 plus 4 parents (parents of other kids than those I polled)
Q1: Have you had a positive, negative or neutral experience at SL...13 students positive+1 neutral, 4 parents positive regarding their kids' experience
Q2: Do you believe the majority of kids you know have had a +, - or neutral experience at South Lakes. Students: 10+, 1-, 3N. Parents regarding majority of other parents they know. 4+
Q3: Your opinion of Mr. Butler, +, -, Neutral. Students: 11+, 3N, Parents: 4+
Q4: Majority of kids opinion of Mr. Butler, +, - or neutral. Students: 11+, 1-, 2N, parents (regarding majority of other parents they know opinion): 3+, 1N

Add to this a number of student comments on this thread and the High School "Rankings" article made by students over the weekend, not one of which calls for Mr. Butler's head, and to that the general feeling of respect for Mr. Butler even from redistricting opponents a couple of years ago or so...So, no, while I cannot speak for the absolute majority, I think I can speak with some authority that Mr. Butler, though human, is well perceived, and respected by the community.

I am all for positive change, and all for improving and learning from our mistakes, but what I am not for is creating an artificial problem where one does not exist.

From my conversations with friends in the community, a significant number of parents are concerned about Butler's leadership style, but they are afraid to bring their concerns up because they fear that any negative comments about the school will be reflected in the school's treatment of their children. Having sat through two School Board meetings in the past month, I have concluded that this administration, and the leaders above it, are more interested in law and order than they are in education. If Mr. Butler and his ilk were thinking like real educators (I speak from more than a decade as a teacher, department chair, and university lecturer), they would have shifted the focus away from punishment and name-calling to where it belongs: learning. They would have perceived the incredible opportunity this could have provided for (a) student leadership to stand up, show their maturity, and remind their peers of behavioral expectations, and (b) to show parents that their kids will be held accountable for injury to the institution that they attend. The school should have made the kids clean up everything, publicly apologize not only to the cafeteria staff but to their fellow students, and spend a few hours each week for the rest of the school year cleaning classrooms, emptying trash, and sweeping hallways. (contd)

It is indeed the "punish first" attitude that our high schools have taken, as well as a lack of creativity and true educational leadership in our current school administrators, that frustrate me and many other parents.

Do any of you people read what you post? Did it ever occur to you that Mr. Butler and the administrators at South Lakes are just following the Fairfax COUNTY Public Schools policies? Remember that nice yellow book your kids get at the beginning of EVERY school year? They actually do serve a purpose. Maybe you should actually read those policies and punishments before you sign the form. If you have so many problems with the county's policies - bring it up with THE COUNTY.

Also, do any of you actually know the administrators? They aren't all about punishment, they actually do care. And unlike some of you, they're both civil AND reasonable. Maybe if you spent five minutes listening to the reason behind the "punishment" you would know why the consequence is as serious as it is.

We not only read, Thomasina, but we write. And when we sign the form on that yellow piece of crap, we are NOT signing that we agree with it or will adhere to it. If you look carefully at the document that you are signing (do YOU read?), you merely acknowledge that you have received it. In fact, here is the language from your beloved book, quoted verbatim: "The undersigned acknowledge that we have received the Student Responsibilities and Rights booklet which includes the above items." We DO NOT sign that we agree to these rules, we DO NOT sign that we think these rules fit in our community. So please go back to school and learn to read before you accuse others of not reading. We clearly read better than you do.

You write what? That anything you don't like should be changed because you say so? It doesn't matter if you agree or not - those are the rules. If you don't like them, don't sign, take your kid(s) somewhere else. Problem solved.

Cynde Spears- I appreciate you comment and I do agree that the e-mail was haste. But to me, if kids want to throw food when there are disable kids, I find that very morally corrupt. If someone were to say to a mentally impaired child in a wheelchair, "hey! wanna have a run later? oh wait, you can't because you're in a wheelchair" I'd find that person very morally corrupt. Starting a food fight, especially during A lunch, I deem as morally corrupt.
Why are you assuming things about me because of my age? I'm actually a straight A student who has never partied, done drugs, or done anything to put my life and other lives in danger. Unfortunately, a milk carton hitting ANY child, can actually affect their brain especially if the impact was great enough. I would go into the physics...but you don't care.

To the general here:
He's a principal. Food fights are NOT tolerated at South Lakes or in FCPS in general.
And honestly, if you're sending your child a text message in haste, i'm sure you'll have some spelling mistakes. He's a HUMAN. He is not God. He is not perfect. No one is perfect. Why don't you parents try to be principals? He knows he has people looking up to him. When I read that e-mail I overlooked the spelling mistakes and concentrated on the MESSAGE of the e-mail. Everyone is just trying to find very small things to attack him with. At least he speaks english!

Give the guy a break.

Cynde,

While you are signing that you have seen the regulations, this does not mean that your child or any child has the right to not adhere by the rules and regulations of the FCPS school system. If you choose not to follow the regulations, the Yellow booklet makes clear exactly what the consequence will be. If you don't agree to the rules and regulations you are welcome to go the another school, outside of the FCPS school system. (Which I'm sure would have similar outlines in regulations.) By signing that booklet you are saying that you have recieved the booklet, and can't say you and your child weren't told the rules and regulations of the county.

If you or your child (or any child) don't agree with it and choose not to adhere to the regulations your child (or any child) WILL be ask to leave, whether temporarily (suspension) or permanently (expulsion). (cont.)

If you are wondering what rule this food fight is under, it clearly falls under "Emergency Suspension," in the yellow booklet:

"Any student whose presence poses a continuing danger to persons or property or an ongoing threat of disruption may be summarily removed from school immediately and the notice, explanation of facts, and opportunity to present his or her version required under "Suspension for Ten Days or Less (Short-Term Suspension)" shall be given as soon as practicable thereafter."

So please, stop with the condescending tone towards others in your comments, it doesn't help your point and doesn't add anything to the conversation. Instead it's only purpose is to attack and enrage others that are commenting. Infact, I could question your comprehension of the rules and also the purpose of them, but I won't. Understand the the rules responsibility is to keep the students in a safe learning environment, and while you may not agree with his tone, Butler is just doing his job informing parents that may otherwise not hear from there child. And he is also enforcing the rules and regulations of FCPS.

I think the Reston Patch should just purge their comments section, as this gives a semi-negative appeal when you look on the side bar.

Dorothea,

"And when we sign the form on that yellow piece of crap, we are NOT signing that we agree with it or will adhere to it. If you look carefully at the document that you are signing (do YOU read?), you merely acknowledge that you have received it. " - Cynde

If you don't see that as a condescending tone then I must be surely mistaken as to what tone is in writing, and must be confusing the word condescending with something else. Do you not see the CAPSLOCK used, the use of the words "yellow piece of crap," and of course the nothing but negative and condescending, "do YOU read?"

These choose of words serve no purpose but to look down upon other commenting, the rules and regulations of the school, and a personal attack questioning another intelligence. In other words to incite and enrage those who it is targeted at. This is definitely not just my "perception" as you claim (and maybe you mean perspective, because perception has to do with the senses such as seeing and hearing), and on the internet the term is "flaming," which means hostile and insulting interaction between internet users.

I'm sorry you couldn't find ANY humor in my comment Dorothea.
I'm going to Princeton University , I don't have to look it up, I know what it means.
The way I define it, is the way I see it.

James, thank you so much.

James, thanks for the explanation. I did mean perception. As for the use of all caps in this instance I simply assumed it was meant for emphasis. I read the response as stern, with a dollop of passion, certainly not a flame. Actually, I thought "yellow piece of crap" was a fine description. :) It made me smile. I remember it well.

I'd just like to point out that saying "shut up" to someone you don't agree with is very uncivil.

and I'm sure if Principal Bruce Butler said "betcha" in an e-mail, you parents would be all over that saying "he isn't using proper English" like totally! :D (I would never say anything like that even if I were being sarcastic)
just throwing that out there.

and Cynde, if you took IB, you'd know what a tone is through writing.

i'm sorry, now back to my more "mature" teenage self.

Those yellow papers are VERY important to every school in FCPS. Do you know how many teacher, administrators, announcements, etc are done in order to remind the students that they HAVE to bring them in SIGNED?
Those "yellow pieces of crap" are actually extremely important. If you have read it and disliked it, please write your own ( I don't see why you waited this long). Perhaps on another color that strikes your fancy and please send it to the school board/county board/etc.

Nicole, just in case you aren't aware, the reason you have to bring in the signed form is so that the school hearing officer can use it against you and your family in any disciplinary case. It covers their behinds -- they trot it out to say, "See? You signed this so you know that you broke the rules." It is not a covenant. It is not an agreement. It is a hammer. Get more involved in school issues so you can see what your school -- and others within the county -- are really a part of. Once you understand the real reasons for many things that the schools do, you might have a different interpretation of administrators' actions.

FOR Karen Goff: Please give readers a way to un-subscribe to Comment threads.
I really like that you invited students to comment on education and youth-related stories. Their perspective is important to help inform the community. However in the future, maybe you could open a new story with a "fresh" Comment thread for that purpose.

I have been quietly sitting on the sidelines and reading through the back and forth. I think this would be a good time for everyone to take it down just one notch.

Cynde, I think this started out somewhat innocently by a student. But it looks like you took the bait and escalated the dialogue. You said it yourself in one of the posts that the signs of adulthood include the capacity to hold our tempers, wait until we have the right words. So while the young lady's tone was teenager'ish, calling the schools' rules and regulations crap certainly did not help maintain control of the conversation nor a constructive discussion.

On the issue of the rules booklet, you are right. Your reading it and signing it does not mean that you have to agree with what it says and if you are not happy with it, there are democratic means by which to effect change via school board elections, hearings and so on. But until you change the booklet, these are the rules and all who attend FCPS are expected to live by them, be they good or bad, or conversely, be prepared to accept consequences.

It's like paying taxes, I am not happy with the amount I have to pay, but until the rules change, got to do what the IRS tells me.

My two cents' worth.

Cynde, to your response,

My interpretation is not "incorrect." Although different from yours, it is not wrong. I disagree with your interpretation because there is absolutely no way to know if the students who participated in the food fight, plan to have another one in the near future. (And in my experience, that is often the case). Also if you want to get technical, the food used in the food fight can easily do physical damage and can be considered assault by the SR&R (whether it does any physical damage or not). If you have a problem with any of the rules, it can be dealt with on a case by case basis on an appeal of the suspension in court. (Where you can argue for your interpretation all you want, maybe the judge will agree, maybe he/she won't).

And "they (SR&R) are meant to ensure that a single, relatively easily managed incident does not rise to the level of a Federal case. " is simply not true. The SR&R is meant to keep students in a safe learning environment with no disruptions, whether the event is "easily managed" or not. Also who said that this disruption would rise to a Federal case? Or even can? That's just a fallacy of false analogy.

I also co-sign Georgio's post, pretty much covers anything else I would have to say. So let's avoid using ad hominem to try to support points, it doesn't work and is simply wrong.

Wikipedia: An ad hominem (Latin: "to the man"), short for argumentum ad hominem, is an attempt to link the truth of a claim to a negative characteristic or belief of the person advocating it.[1] The ad hominem is normally described as a logical fallacy,[2] but it is not always fallacious; in some instances, questions of personal conduct, character, motives, etc., are legitimate and relevant to the issue

I believe this entire argument is growing increasingly irrelevant, and is errupting into an immature and rather useless exchange of verbal barbs. Let us look at this issue through facts, not personal opinion or false statistics. (continued)

Children that sign the SR&R sheet acknowledge that they have read and understand the content of the book. The signature of the parent bears the same connotation; this includes the county's policy on food fights. Though they may seem silly, there are a number of students that attend public school's determined as physically fragile. Sure, a flying milk carton may seem silly and trivial to most. However, that milk carton would eventually lead to the spilling of liquid. It does not take common sense to see where the health hazard lies; wet floors lead to a higher chance of a student falling and seriously injuring themselves. The floors are hard, like the floors of most school cafeterias, so if the student happened to fall on their head, severe head injuries could occur. Injuries that could lead to the student falling comatose, requiring hospitalization, or even death. During food fights, students run about, in order to avoid the food. This inherently increases the possibility of a student falling and hurting themselves further. Additionally, the falling student is also in risk of injuring others. This takes me back to my point regarding the physically fragile students; there are some that attend the school that could be grievously injured or killed by having a fellow student already propelled forward with a great amount of force from their running. (continued)

Yes—the principal’s words might have been strong, regarding “moral corruption”. However, getting upset over this phrase and thus complaining about the administration because of it proves a lack of understanding of the meaning of his letter in the first place; the idea of the letter was to instruct parents to reinforce the seriousness of the issue. As stated earlier, a food fight is indeed something to be taken seriously; maybe not the fight itself, but rather the consequences. The principal was performing his duties just fine, he was stressing the importance in the safety of his students. To be so upset about an attempt to prevent the suffering of another child as a consequence to the silly, immature, and impulsive actions of another child seems irrational; for in the end, that is just what the letter was. Again, it is a matter of perspective, whether or not the word choice was offensive. However, the underlying meaning remains the same; the principal was encouraging parents to speak to their child about the serious consequences of their actions.

Shutting the comments for this story down now. Thanks for playing and come back soon.