May Magruder rest in peace. As the next Hunter Mill representative to the School Board, I would like to hear from live people about their views on current issues. What do you think about the proposal to put video cameras in the schools? Please respond here or send me an email to Nancy@Nancylintonforschoolboard.org.
Nancy Linton
Candidate, Hunter Mill

Graham, I am not so naive as to believe that every member of the two teachers unions supports every position taken by FZTR, SLEEP, and the other critics. The teachers unions cringed, as I did, when critics who lead these groups told the Board of Supervisors in May to CUT school funding, because we made decisions they disagreed with. Many teachers wrote to us to oppose the SLEEP proposal. This is an example of the critics using "raw" numbers to suggest support for every part of their agenda.

BOS budget hearings are in April.

while they went on and on to the point of bleary eyed-ness, I don't recall Phyllis Payne (SLEEP) or Caroline Hemenway (FZTR) or Janet Otersen (FZTR) calling for reductions in the size of the transfer.

OK, John, you got me -- April vs. May. In any event, FEC members DID ask the Supervisors to lower the transfer.

There are not "plenty of scientific studies to support different start times . . . " All of the studies say FFX high schools start too early.

The "poll" that the Gatehouse propagandists rigged to re-enforced their preferred predetermined outcome (boundary study participants know all about that process) was nothing like a poll that would be undertaken by the most decrepit polling company. Academics laughed at the effort because it is was so transparently not scientific or meeting any of the standards of the polling profession.

"Well, give up and go away and let the rest of us do what's right by our kids."

Um, no but thanks for the suggestion. I plan to stick around and be a voice of reason. I might make a hobby of poking small and big holes in arguments. Especially the ridiculous statistics. Those are my favorites!

Stu - I can't believe you stuck it out for 16 years.

And I assume that "mafia" behavior is why you posted under your initials. What a sad commentary...

Elizabeth - I am not sure I am interpreting your comment correctly...please explain. Thanks.

But no one -- not even Fairfax CAPS -- predicted in 2007 and 2008 that total school enrollment would grow by more than 10,000 students between 2008 and 2012. And certainly Fairfax CAPS did not predict that Oakton HS would be overcrowded and require trailers AFTER we moved students from Oakton to South Lakes. In fact, Fairfax CAPS claimed that Oakton was not overcrowded in 2008, and predicted it would not be overcrowded in 2012.

a 6% increase in enrollment over 4 years is only 1.5% per year; and the wizard demographers at gatehouse didn't pick that up?

John, congratulations! You just tried to make 10,000 students seem like a trivial number. Most school systems in America don't have more than 10,000 students.

No, I'm mocking an attempt to say that the increase was unforseeable and overwhelming.

10,000 kids over 4 years and 188 schools: less than 14 extra kids per school per year, not even a full class size and the leaders of a "world class system" couldn't figure that out.

John, Really!? In 2007 our demographers should have predicted that the world financial crisis and national housing meltdown would occur in 2008 and 2009? And in 2007 they should have predicted that those dual crises (which you certainly did not predict or warn anyone about) would have led thousands of Fairfax County residents to stay put, instead of moving to other places as they would otherwise have done? Even YOU don't believe that.

You're blaming the inadequacies of the Gatehouse staff in predicting a 13 kid per school per year increase in enrollment (not a large increase really) on the 2008 meltdown. As if those families who would have otherwise moved wouldn't have been replaced by other families with children?

Stop it. Go back to Vatican II. You're on safer ground.

John, if you want to torture the statistics to blame staff for not predicting the impact of the recession on our total enrollment, go ahead. But that's what happened.

The only torturing going on is your conduct in the discipline hearings. A little repentance there might be helpful for your outlook for the coming year. To say nothing of the dozens people you disparaged and ridiculed at too many public hearings over the last 16 years.

the only one playing games with numbers is you trying to portray a 10,000 increase in enrollment over 4 years in a system of 188 school and 150,000+ kid as an event so overwhelming as to be paralyzing.

"My conduct in discipline hearings?" John, you've never been in the room with me during a discipline hearing. Just like you and I have never had a conversation about my decision not to seek reelection this year. But that didn't stop you from claiming on the Patch that YOU were the one who had convinced me not to run again this year. Just let it go.

I've had more than enough reports of your outrageous conduct toward those children and their families to fill an entire "book of life."

As for for letting go, it's you who insists on continuing to hold forth on this Patch blog savaging anyone who hopes to improve FCPS.

You're a lame duck.

Enough.

"Perhaps the most obvious evidence to prove a need for rethinking our priorities is the fact that FCPS has decided to spend $80 million on an expansion to Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology. In a time when funds have been reduced drastically, yet are desperately needed, our school system chooses to give to those who need it the least???? I did not comment on THAT Patch article - and it seems no one else is brave enough to do so - but I will say here that I find it utterly shameful."

Wow, I didn't know that. That really is shameful!

Based on what do you claim the kids at TJ need it the least?

Ms. Schultz,
It is strange that you cited the FCPS violation of the Freedom of Information Act as a reason to throw out the incumbents. You well know that the Board member who violated the Act by participating illegally in a meeting is running unopposed for re-election, and has your support and the support of the critics.
Also, it is odd for you to throw out the charge of mudslinging, given that virtually all the "mudslinging" during last year's discussion about Clifton was directed personally at a sitting Board member. You testified to the Board in May that, in your view, it was a "waste" of time and money for the Board to discuss how we relate to each other in public. And yet the lack of civility that you and others have demonstrated during the past 24 months set a very poor example for the students in this school system that you seek to lead.
The lack of civility by some -- which continues to this day -- and your failure to condemn that lack of civility, does not bode well for the level of discussion you will bring to the School Board, should you be fortunate enough to win election in November.

After violating a child's privacy rights for political advantage, you have the temerity to lecture anyone on civility.

The incivility, deceit and obfuscation came from Brasher, Wilson and Tisdat who as public servants have a higher standard to uphold.

Ten days for repentence? You could be a very busy man.

Tizku leshanim rabbot.

92 days left.

John, I am not going to comment on the events of 4 years ago. But I WILL say that I did not bring my children to campaign events and back to school nights and trot them out as examples of what is wrong or right with FCPS. If you want to lecture me about what Jewish law says about atoning for events that occurred in 2007, be my guest. But I am not so presumptuous as to believe that I am capable of lecturing someone of the Catholic faith about Vatican II.

You're not going to try to retract the acknowledgment of wrongdoing and apology now are you.

You're not going to justify a wrongful act by casting aspersions on someone else are you?

Sounds just like one of your victims at a discipline hearing.

11 words constitutes a lecture.

If you think you know anything about Vatican II, feel free. You'd be ahead of Ratzinger.

A word of caution before you start though, my theology professor was Richard McBrien, one of the leading American authorities on Vatican II, and we had a rabbi on the faculty who spent taught a comparative course on Judism and Catholicism. His lectures were great, especially the one comparing the Seder to the Eucharist.

John, As I said, I am not commenting on what happened in 2007. As for my knowledge of Vatican II, it is no more and no less than your knowledge of Jewish practice, law, and tradition when it comes to the Yamim Noraim.

Boys, I think you have beaten this particular sub-topic on this thread to death. Time for a truce. Pick on another sub-topic if you wish.

Mike - There was no "talking Patch" into anything. As the Hunter Mill rep to the school board, Stu is an elected official whom I have given column space to write on whatever subject he chooses. RA president Kathleen Driscoll McKee has the same access.

If you don't like what Stu has to say, fine. But understand how and why this column came about as well.

Professional journalists question the propriety of giving any public official regular access to limited bandwidth. They have their own bullhorn including, in this case, a staff of 22 paid propagandists at Gatehouse, to get out their message.

Comments have neither the billing nor the standing of the original post.

But only 93 days left.

Hopefully, the next Hunter Mill School Board member will not have the time or inclination for caustic diatribes attacking those who only seek to have FCPS live up to the hype.

Happy Rosh Hashanah, (Jewish New Year)

+1!

David,
David, let's get the facts straight. We closed the Graham Road BUILDING because we needed more space, and the building could not be expanded or renovated. We kept the SCHOOL, and moved it to a renovated building less than a half mile down the street from the old building.

100% accurate - thank you for making sense.

Like.

Like

Catherine, I just wish you would tell the truth on your blog every once in a while. It would be a refreshing change from the "spin" we have become so used to on 24-hour-a-day cable news. And I wish you would at least tell Fox5 News that you are not "from" Red Apple Mom, you ARE Red Apple Mom.

It's not my opinion but the evaluation of multiple professional journalist: NYT, Moyers, Rather et als. Letter to the Editors are fine. An occasional, irregular op ed piece, swell, but a regular blog or column is not accepted practice in the profession.

The objection I've heard voiced is that it looks like the publication becomes a mouthpiece for the pol, like Fox.

Having neither the time nor inclination to blog, your gracious offer must be declined with gratitude. Perhaps in my dotage.

Surely, these modernists will not say that the metaethic underlying the rules, new or old, haven't been discarded:

Perserving an independent voice separate from the government or corporate official, giving voice to those who do not have their own bullhorn; avoiding the appearance of being a flak.

Those values haven't been eliminated from the profession, even at HuffPost.

The WashPo, NYT and others have a comment functions on their on-line versions, which are the successors to the letters to the editor, and yet still adhere to the highest journalist standards and don't turn over columns to sitting public officials.

Several of your fellow Patch editors don't give columns to them either.

I'm not changing your mind but I hold your fellow Patch editors who don't engage in this practice in higher regard.

"...and don't turn over columns to sitting public officials."

John, this is incorrect. The original article by Stu Gibson is clearly marked as an Opinion. Further, the Wall Street Journal, Financial Times, NY Times, and Washington Post have included articles written by currently elected officials (and officials appointed by elected officials) in their Op-Ed sections. If you'd like, I can post links to recent articles by politicians in all of these newspapers. I find these articles interesting - even if I do not agree with the statements - because they're unfiltered by another writer.

I think the Patch sites are a great way for people to keep in touch with local news on a regular basis and exchange ideas through comments. I appreciate what the Patch editors and writers bring to the site, and assume they don't get paid enough for what they're doing.

scott

the Murdock Rag does not represent a journalist standard against which I even measure Patch.

The criticism has been totally missed. The NYT and Kaplan Journal will post an Op Ed or Letter to the Editor by and incumbent public office holder.

What they would never do is make a such a person a part of their regular rotation of op-ed writers. Those are the anologies to Gibson's recurring screeds here.

In your admiration of all things Patch notice that many other editors of local Patches don't follow Karen's practice.

Mr. Farrell, for someone so critical of this page's editorial policy and Ms. Goff's bias, you sre spend a lot of time on this blog. I can only guess that you must be independently wealthy or work at night because I am not sure how you can be so active on the patch and have a day job.

Maybe you actually do not exist and are a plant of the editor to make debate interesting, are you?

Wow, Elizabeth. Where do I start?

First of all, did I say I don't like what John has to say? I did not. And I am grateful he shows up. He adds perspective and debate. I just offered him his own blog - again.

Second of all, I have a 10th grader who attends South Lakes High School. I was the PTA president of one of the elementary schools in the pyramid. I am well acquainted personally and professionally with FCPS. Do you know my personal feelings about the schools? No you do not, because I leave them out of the coverage here as any editor would do. But since you asked, our experiences in FCPS have been quite positive.

Third, I have been in the news business for 25 years have have won numerous awards for my work. This is my full-time job. I am paid the same as I was when I worked at a major daily newspaper. My freelancers are paid. I don't where you came up with "habitual, grave ethical failings" but it wasn't on this site. Can't speak for the other ones.

Also, Elizabeth. Don't you (or did you used to) work for Fairfax Station Patch? I imagine the "fledging blog" was paying you, no? Surprisingly negative words from someone with more than 50 bylines with us.

Scott - Stu Gibson has never had the interests of anyone but himself and his own children (how long ago?) in mind. His attitude has always been, "I know better than everyone else." The current state of FCPS is hardly a laughing matter, and you do a great injustice to countless children when you boil it down to "a few who can't let go." Spend a couple of weeks with me and you will change your tune - I would bank on it! I would love nothing more than to have a "shadow" for a short while - do you have the courage...or, perhaps, the confidence in your assessment???

KB, KB, KB - not quite true.like Richard, I too am grateful to Mr. Gibson for his efforts on behalf of South Lakes and redistricting. I did not agree with all his views, but to give 16 years for public service is something. So, Stu thank you for your service, and like Scott - I also can't believe you lasted this long.

Carlos - that you are grateful does not mean that Stu Gibson did not have his own interests at heart, does it? I will concede that public service is to be applauded/commended/appreciated, yet I believe that, in some cases, there comes a time when certain public servants are no longer actually serving their consituents. My mistake was in using the word "never"...I should have chosen "rarely" or "rarely, of late" instead. That being said, the only person who can say whether my statement is true is Mr. Gibson himself - and I'm not sure I would believe anything he says at the moment.

With maybe the exception of Mother Teresa, and few others I can probably count on one hand's fingers, I don't know of many that do things without at least a little bit of self-interest at heart.

I concede again, Carlos - you are right...Stu Gibson is certainly NO Mother Theresa! :)

Glad that you see thbings my way. U related to Mother Teresa?

and some say I'm too cynical

many of us are involved in civic affairs because we came to believe that we have an obligation as a citizen in a democracy "to see a wrong and try to right it, to see suffering and try to heal it . . ." not because it advances our personal self interest, quite the contrary, putting our time, intellect, experience and passion into, inter alia, helping FCPS live up to the hype, takes from other endeavors that would be more remunerative and/or enjoyable.

No, Carlos - no relation...although I am one of her biggest fans and could recount her life for you. One can only aspire to be more like her. I'm sure that is what Mr. Gibson had in mind all along - particularly with the South Lakes redistricting.

John - not sure who you are referring to as the cynical one, but I can't agree with you more. I am not invoveld in "civic affairs" necessarily, but I chose teaching as a profession for all the reasons you mention. I still maintain that there are some public servants (as well as teachers, no doubt) who are not "in it" for the same reasons that we are. They may be few in number, but they exist. Perhaps they have simply been "in it" for too long and lose perspective?? Regardless of reason/cause,when civil servants can no longer relate to those they serve, it's time to hang up the proverbial hat.

KB

my 12:01 comment was directed at Mr. Piqur and never someone as altruistic as yourself.

KB: My biggest issue with the discontented is that in some cases they fail to apply their principles consistently. For example, the discontented people - and a few are running for school board - want the board to take a more active role in managing the Superintendent and the organization, to the point where it can be considered micromanagement. And yet this is counter to how private industry operates. Take a publicly traded company with revenues of $2 billion (the same as FCPS revenues) and apply the same concept. What CEO or CEO candidate would want a fickel board to tell him/her how to run the business? 0. Nobody would take the job, and I can assure you a company with $2 billion in revenue would pay far more than what Jack Dale currently makes. The last thing we need is for all of the elected members to play CEO. Instead, their job is no different than that of a company's BoD: hire the right person, support him/her even with difficult decisions, establish a set of expectations for the superindendent, and address significant issues as they arise. That's "Significant" with a capital S. I don't want a school board to get involved with every single issue and I don't want the school board to constantly second-guess to CEO.

Oh, and KB: spend a couple of weeks with me and you'll change your tune. It will require you to learn how to accept that every human is imperfect and organizations are a collection of imperfect humans. Also, there are Issues and issues, and they usually fall into a 5/95 ratio. Issues (capital I) are difficult, sometimes take a long time to resolve and sometimes there's pain involved. issues (little i) are numerous, small, and really don't matter. The basic problem is that people have a tough time discerning between Issues and issues, and this is where the mess begins.

I have confidence in my original assessment because I manage my expectations and have enough experience with large organizations and political bodies to understand how things work. And for my children I will not fight that which I cannot change - it's a waste of time - but instead will teach them how to learn, take risks, how to fail, and see the bigger picture. These skills will allow them to be far more successful than what a structured learning environment can offer.

Scot

two problems with your comment:

I have personal experience with very successful BODs spending scads of time on the color of the hallway carpet. Your imagination of how they work doesn't match real world experience.

Second, Corporations have one metric shareholder value.

School Boards are NOT trying to turn a profit. They are delivering a public good and fiscal conservatism frequently defeats the delivery of that public good.

Making analogies between for-profit organizations and government is the road to failure as too many candidates from the business world find to their chagrin.

John, part of my day job is to address full BoDs (and committees) for both publicly traded and non-public companies and funds, and have been doing it for some time. My comments reflect my experiences. I realize different people have different experiences. None of the boards I've worked with have worried about carpet colors.

Further, the school system, not the school board, delivers the public good. The school board, as overseers of the school system, should instead focus on enabling the most efficient delivery of the public good (let's call it Taxpayer Value) within the parameters established. I realize distinct differences exist between for-profit and government goals, and those differences create different tasks for the Boards. That does not and will not change my belief that the school board should not attempt to micromanage the school system's administrators.

Just as I suspected, a consultant hired by CEOs.

CEO are always whining about BODs micromanaging. If the BOD of AIG, CITI and Lehman and gotten deeper into the weeds we wouldn't be in this economic mess.

The School Board is the fiduciary and they are charged with delivery of the public good. The Superintendent is a mere employee terminable at will.

Thanks! and I am jumping right back out....

Seconding this motion.

Good suggestion. I believe Red Apple Mom is already linked, but I will add the rest.

Elizabeth, not sure who is reacting defensively here. I hate to tell you this, but Karen was pretty much minding her own business and staying neutral in the debate. She reacted and responded to a challenge to the editorial philosophy. You are the one overreacting to minimal critique here.

Than you interceded and made this now a bigger issue than it is by bringing up all sorts of other things that have little to do with the topic at hand (plagiarism, non-payment, etc).

If you hold this publication in so little esteem, I am not sure why you are dignifying by being on it. Can't have it both ways...sorry.

there goes Karen taking the side of her contributors again.

Please close the comments.

better yet close down this blog

If you had the least appreciation for the damage done to scores of families, you wouldn't be telling me enough.

You cannot know the number of emails of support I've receive since my responses to this blog went up.

We've all had enough of Gibson.

If anyone thought you were serious, it would be nauseating blasphemy.

But you're mocking and engaging in an ad hominen attack which doesn't address the proper conduct of a School Board member toward advocacy groups who seek to improve an imperfect FCPS.

Challenging the advocates' motivation doesn't address the issue either.

In that case, I say, he should take you up on your offer of his own column. He could get his point across AND achieve the notoriety that he is loking for, but not getting because contributing in the comments section as he says, does not carry the same amount of glamor or weight - thus he can be on equal footing with Mr. Gibson and your other columnists - and all the fame and riches they achieve through their opinion pieces.

Are your azaleas really dying

They should be going great guns with all the rain this summer. If they're near the sidewalks or the foundations, the lime leaching out from the concrete might be making the soil too alkaline. A good acid base fertilizer might help and Fall is the season to fertilize azaleas.

Notoriety is not a motivation here. A school system that is as good as its hype is. FCPS has miles to go to reach that condition.

I wouldn't want to diminish my standing to Stu's.

Then don't complain about him having his own column.

So the point of your posting is to silence one of Mr. Gibson's critics.

92 days from now that might happen.

Wrong. Circular logic. You are the one that started this whole discussion by saying that Mr. Gibson should not have his own column. You do not like him, we understand, but you were trying to silence him. You don't like him having the floor.

You claimed that it provides him some "advantage" vs. the "commenters". Ms. Goff offered equal opportunity and your own platform with the same advantages that Stuart has - just like the opposition parties have their say to the President's addresses or other local officials on the radio. You refused.

You took the conversation off-topic, a couple of people challenged you, including Ms. Goff. You accused her of bias, where there was none, because she happened not to agree with you. You took her to task, trying to embarrass her into silence.

You claim to believe in the 1st amendment, well, then, live and let live. Just because you don't agree with Mr. Gibson, Ms. Goff, Mr. Katz, Scott and others on this thread, doesn't mean that your word is any more absolute than any of theirs. It is a matter of opinion, and just as you have pointed in the Patch before, short of a scientific poll, you have no more right to claim the world's opinion is more with you than with any of them.

Is it intentional circularity on your part or intentional distortion of a syllogism simple enough for a child to follow?

No one is trying to silence Gibson, just deprive him of a platform that few professional journalist would cede to a sitting public official. I have no objection to an occasional letter to the editor or comments on a Patch story from that person. That you cannot see the difference says more about you than about me.

I have no obligation to take on the burden of a blog as a price for the satisfaction of professional journalistic standards here.

Like every human, Ms. Goff has biases and I am not the first to observe them here.

Only a fool would try to silence an editor. I am trying to persuade her to confirm to generally accepted journalistic standards followed by other Patch editors.

Disagreeing with Ms. Goff, Mssr. Gibson, Katz, Scott or you is not demanding that only I can be the source of all wisdom.

The extent to which the voters of the County agree with me will be revealed on November 9th.

That you can't follow these distinctions is a pity.

Not sure who distorts what here.

"No one is trying to silence Gibson: - really? You surely come across that way.

"I have no obligation to take on the burden of a blog as a price for the satisfaction of professional journalistic standards here." - just the same way, the editors have no obligation to take on the burden of changing their policies for the satisfaction of how you think things should be. What the "professional" standards should be, whether you agree or not, appear a matter of debate, and not an absolute.

"Disagreeing with Ms. Goff, Mssr. Gibson, Katz, Scott or you is not demanding that only I can be the source of all wisdom." - you surely seem to spend a lot of time on the Patch proving how right you are on just about any topic you find objectionable. It looks like you must have the last word in almost every case, and my posting is no exception. Even when you were asked to stay on topic, had to claim your wisdom of how Ms. Goff was biased against you, or maybe her logic was not simple enough to follow.